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Saturday, February 22, 2014

Sochi Figure Skating Scandal: Athleticism Favored Over Artistry? Seriously?




• As I'm receiving quite a few updates and info from my blog readers, this post will be updated accordingly.

•  Right click on this blog but is forbidden. Whoever still needs this post in WORD format, please email me


• Read Related Articles: 

(1) Sochi Figure Skating Scandal:  What's Next? A Possible Agenda To The Next Stage
(2) Sochi Figure Skating Scandal: (Mostly) Objective and (Somewhat) Mathematical Analysis of Why Kim Yuna Should Have Won the Gold Medal
(3) Sochi Figure Skating Scandal: Worldwide Figure Skating Fans' Letter to International Sports Journalists and Figure Skating Insiders



It just so happened that I watched Tara and Johnny on NBC, defending the figure skating judging controversy in Sochi.  I almost fell out of my chair when I heard them spread this false information on national TV, but soon I remembered they had repeated the same phrases while commentating on NBC Sports Network for the last few days.  And it seems to work, leading their viewers to accept it as being true.  

1.  Some say Sotnikova earned the gold medal by doing 7 triple jumps, one triple jump more than Kim; her free skate was more difficult than Kim’s as its total base value was higher.

2.  Some say it’s because figure skating is now math under COP (new scoring system) and Sotnikova figured out better ways to garner more points in this subject; the math defeated the art.

3.  Some say, even though Sotnikova bobbled on a three-jump combination, she bravely attacked it while Kim skated with less energy; athleticism was favored over artistry.

Wrong.  Totally wrong.  And as a loyal follower of the sport since Robin Cousins and as a mom who can skate, I don’t think I'm not qualified to chime in on what’s wrong with such lame defenses.


1.  Base Value Doesn’t Necessarily Mean Actual Score


In figure skating, each jump has a base (numerical) value.  When a jump is under-rotated , it is indicated by < and its value is adjusted, according to which, a grade of execution (GOE) from +3 to -3 is weighted.  

For example, if a triple Lutz is under-rotated, its base value is adjusted from 6.0 to 4.2 with GOE at the discretion of every Judge.  On the other hand, if a triple Lutz is downgraded, it is indicated by << and treated as a double; hence, its base value is adjusted from 6.0 to 2.1 with GOE at the discretion of every judge.


GOE:  Nine judges on the panel get elements sent to their computer by the Technical Panel for marking and they give a mark for grade of execution (GOE), ranging from -3 to +3.





When performing a jump in competition you can improve your score by achieving a higher grade of execution GOE. You can receive +1, +2, or +3 based on the number of bullets you achieve below.

1.    Unexpected, creative, difficult entry
2.    Clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3.    Varied position in the air/delay in rotation
4.    Great height and/or distance
5.    Superior extension on landing/creative exit
6.    Superior flow in and out (and in-between in jump combinations/sequences)                                                             
                                                            (Quoted from gofigureskating.com)



As you may know by now, a base value doesn’t necessarily mean the actual score.  It is just like a doctoral dissertation proposal, it you will.  To receive a degree, you have to write a dissertation and pass the dissertation defense.  Likewise, to earn the actual score, you must perform the scheduled elements and get them ratified.  If you fail, you will receive less points than your proposed base values.


2.  Judges Did Math but Gave Wrong Answer


And understandably to your surprise, a total base value of Kim’s two programs (88.92) were lower than Sotnikova’s (91.86) by only 2.94 points margin. There was never a 5.48 points separation in their base values as others say.

In Short Program, Kim’s base value was 1 point higher than Sotnikova’s, but her GOE was 1.04 points lower while her PCS is only 0.34 points higher than Sotnikova’s. Can you believe this?  Kim, aka, the Textbook Jumper, got lower GOE's on jumps!  And here lies the key to untangle this judging scandal. 


Short Program
Base Value
GOE
PCS
Total
Kim
31.43
+7.62
35.89
74.92
Sotnikova
30.43
+8.66
 35.55 
74.64


In Free Skate, Kim’s base value was 3.94 points lower than Sotnikova’s and her GOE was 1.91 points lower while her PCS is only 0.09 points higher than Sotnikova’s.



Free Skate
Base Value
GOE
PCS
Total
Kim
57.49
+12.20
74.50
144.19
Sotnikova
61.43
+14.11
 74.41 
149.95


So, Kim’s total base value was just 2.94 points lower than Sotnikova’s and it was GOE's and PCS's that changed the color of a medal.  And the judges’ negligence, intended or not, in penalizing Sotnikova’s cheated jumps played a crucial role in it.



Total
Base Value
GOE
PCS
Total
Kim
88.92
+19.82
110.39
219.11
Sotnikova
91.86
+22.77
 109.96 
224.59



Now, compare the quality of Kim's and Sotnikova's triple Flip and the GOE's in Short Program:



Her Triple Flip received +1.2 GOE
Her Triple Flip received +1.1 GOE




In terms of the flow in and out of the jump, take-off edge, air-position, number of revolutions in the air, and distance, whose do you think was better and deserved a higher GOE?  Look at Sotnikova's wobbly left foot right after a 3 turn into the take-off.  


When such miscalculation in numbers adds up, then it changes the outcome.


In last European Figure Skating Championships held in January 2014, just a month prior to Sochi Olympics, Sotnikova's triple Lutz received a wrong edge call and got a negative GOE (-1.70) (four -3's and five -2's from nine judges) but its base value score wasn't even adjusted. (Click on the image to see the original size version.)













But just a month later in Sochi, her flutz was fully ratified (hence no deduction) and garnered a 10.10 point base value and also a positive GOE (1.00).  Only one judge gave her a negative GOE (-1) and there was even +3 point GOE from one judge.  Kim's magnificent textbook Lutz earned only 0.60 points more than Sotnikova's cheated flutz.








And one might say, "What if she has already fixed that jump?"  

But no, it's simply impossible.  After years of learning and training, your body memorizes the technique, right or wrong.  


Now, here's a clip that shows Sotnikova's fully-ratified Flutz in Sochi:




Triple Lutz-Triple Toe

Sotnikova's change of the take-off edge from outside to inside just before the vault is obvious: FLUTZ.


And the obvious pre-rotation (entry) and under-rotation (exit) on her second triple - triple Toe. Which means her triple Toe was under-rotated by 1/4 or 1/2.


Neither her Flutz nor her under-rotated Toe received any deduction or downgrade.  Instead, the judges gifted her with a 10.10 point base value and also a positive GOE (1.00). 


Too frustrating not only for the fans but for the skaters.


Did you already forget how long Mao Asada of Japan had struggled to fix her flutz yet the problem still remains?  And how Miki Ando hurt her shoulder and left knee while trying to fix her Lip (cheated Flip) in 2007?  And how her injury forced her to withdraw during her free skate at the 2008 Four Continents?  


How unfair!  The ISU judges should've let Asada and Ando just jump their way and given them scores just like they did for Sotnikova and Lipnitskaya in Sochi.


Seriously. If you don't want to appreciate the athletes who play by the rule book, then why bother.  Just lose all the difficult and different jump techniques and let the skaters jump their way.  Don't let the poor skaters waste their time and energy and get injured over and over while training to master those techniques.



3. Kim Yuna the Textbook Jumper



It's a known fact that Kim's jumps are all textbook even though she does not do a triple Loop in competitions afraid of any further injury.  



Triple Lutz
Triple Lutz-Triple Toe


Triple Flip
Triple Flip
Triple Salchow
Triple Loop
Triple Toe
Double Axel-Triple Toe


No other skaters can jump like Kim.  Honestly, even with my 30+ years of experience as a figure skating fanatic, without protocols or a little help from commentators, many times it's really hard to tell the types of jumps (except an Axel) executed by some other skaters.  

On the other hand, all Kim's jumps need no clarification. Her glide into the entry, her take-off edge, her leg positions, and her landing straightforwardly tell me the type of jumps she just executed.  Up until this Wednesday, her jumps have garnered the highest GOE's because of the quality of execution, technique, height, speed, flow and ice coverage (distance). 


Yet only because Sotnikova did seven flawed/cheated triple jumps while Kim did six flawless textbook jumps, now everyone is saying Sotnikova is more technical and athletic than Kim.  As if we were back in the old 6.0 era. 



4. Athleticism Favored Over Artistry in Sochi?  


Since when Kim Yuna did become just a ballerina on ice?  

Mr. Scott Hamilton, did you already forget that you called Kim the total package?  A perfect combination of athleticism and artistry?  As you already know, without athleticism, there's no artistry. Only and only if a skater is equipped with perfect skills and techniques, she can deliver an artistic performance, not the other way around.

And shame on you, judges!  How could you possibly gift Sotnikova with almost 3 point higher GOE's when her jumps are clearly several notches below Kim's quality of execution, technique, height, speed, flow and ice coverage (distance)?  Just take a look and compare!  


Double Axel-Double Toe-Double Loop
(Triple Flip)-Double Toe-Double Loop



Sotnikova 's double Loop was obviously under-rotated with a wobbly, shaky (and possibly two-footed) landing but didn't get any deduction and also her negative GOE was just -0.90 points while Kim's beautifully executed, technically superb jump combination was rewarded with just 0.79 point GOE.  








And judges, could you kindly explain to me why you gave her +3 point GOE's 33 times while Kim only received +3 point GOE's only 13 times in Free Skate?  How could you possibly do that?


Captured from KBS News aired on 02/21/2014


Please don't be fooled by Kim's seamless jumps. Her jumps look easy but it's never easy to make them look easy.  And also, don't be fooled by Sotnikova's jumps. Landing  jerky, noisy, pounding jumps doesn't necessarily mean that she skated with more energy and attack.

Let me quote Dragonlady, a long-time poster at the ISU figure skating forum since 2005, who is not even a Kim Yuna fan:

It's not just height in the jumps, it's height and distance. Adelina's jumps went up and down in a smaller arc, which is why she didn't have the same speed on her runouts. She didn't have entries or exits which were as difficult. Her jumps received a plethora of +3's, 33 in total. Her opening combo marks ranged from -1 to +3. I honestly didn't see any elements worthy of +3's, because of the lack of difficult entries and exits. Rough around the edges is the best general description of her skating. 

Now, let's watch the three different versions of Kim's triple Lutz-triple Toe combination jump she executed in her free skate in Sochi. You will see camera angle is everything and it really is deceiving when you compare the distance she traveled in the air portrayed by the three different cameras.




Russian Version
NBC Version
Fancam Version 1
Fancam Version 2


No one knows if the Russians purposely shot Kim's jumps that way but one thing I know for sure is the Russian camera angle didn't do her jumps justice. It is an absolute lie that Kim's jumps were not as high as, or didn't travel as far as, they used to be or do.


5. Step Sequences or Cheaters' Shortcuts?



Up until Sochi Olympics, Kim's exquisite step sequences and elegant spins with good speed, clarity and precision (deep clean edges) have received  Level 4. In Sochi, however, she got Level 3's on her step sequences and her layback spin while Sotnikova's juniorish steps and spins earned the maximum Level 4's.  And it's really surprising that Sotnikova was the only skater in this event who received Level 4's on step sequences and spins both in Short Program and Free Skate.


Let's compare Kim's and Sotnikova's step sequences:




Level 4


Level 3


In terms of the speed, clarity and precision (use of deep clean edges), whose do you think was better and deserved Level 4? 


At least, I've got the answer. 


If you still haven't figured it out, then see for yourself the incomparable quality of Kim's step sequences.  First, look carefully at the right foot and compare Kim and Sotnikova side by side in terms of the use of deep and clean edges, the control of the edges, then check the use of the upper body and arms, and then the overall flows and duration:



(Click for an in-depth analysis of Kim's and Sotnikova's step sequences
by Blade of Passion, a poster on the Golden Skate forum.)
(Click for this valuable evaluation of Kim's and Sotnikova's step sequences
by ladyepheu, a poster on the Golden Skate forum.)










And  the following video will show you how Kim was cheated out of her second Olympic gold by the "numbers", even though it is just part of the abundant evidence against the Sochi insults, sorry, results:






6. If Kim's Strength Is Artistry, Why Was Her PCS So Low?



Now, let talk about "Artistry".


While Kim was labeled "just" an artist on ice who lacks athleticism "in Sochi," she received only 0.43 points more for her overall PCS score than Sotnikova.  


In last 2013–14 Grand Prix of Figure Skating Finals held in December 2013, just about two months prior to Sochi Olympics, Sotnikova received 91.32 points for her PCS score, 18.61 points lower than her Olympic score. 


Do you know how many years it took Kim to be able to earn her PCS as high as 110.39 points in Sochi?  Five years and a half since 2008 when she received a similar PCS to Sotnikova's earned at 2013-2014 Grand Prix Final. It took five+ years for Kim but only two months was enough for Sotnikova. Wow.


The following pictures show the obviously drastic changes that have occurred to Sotnikova's PC scores in such a short period of time.  (Click on the image to see the original size version.)











That said, we were all wrong. Sotnikova is the artist on ice.


Yet again, let me quote Dragonlady on Sotnikova's PCS:

Her PCS marks were similarly inflated. Low to mid 8's are reasonable, which is what she received at Europeans. High 9's are near perfection. This was not anywhere near perfection. There was very little program in that program. It was a series of elements skated with music playing.

And that's not all, Folks.  There's a 30.65 point difference between her technical score at GPF and in Sochi.  So, is it in fact Sotnikova who is the total package?




TES
PCS
Total
Grand Prix Final
83.98
91.32
173.30
SOCHI
114.63
 109.96 
224.59



Her overall score made a quantum leap from 173.30 to 224.59 (gaining 51.29 more points in about two months) and her free skate score of 149.95 is just 0.11 point shy of Kim's 2010 world record (150.06 points) for her legendary "Gershwin" performance. 

And there, I'm speechless. Can any insiders explain such sudden improvement to us?  Is this ever possible?  Did it ever happen in the history of figure skating before Sochi?  Please answer us. 


Well... wait a second, I think I've figured out the answer myself in this post.  


Had the judges fairly penalized Sotnikova's cheated, under-rotated, and two-footed jumps, had they not played with the PCS's and GOE's accordingly, her score would have never come close to Kim's, not to mention the 50+ points inflation.  


For, as I told you earlier, when such miscalculation in numbers adds up, then it changes the outcome.


Seriously, wasn't her virtual tie with Kim after Short Program laughably ridiculous and ridiculously laughable? Some say it's because Kim skated earlier. Then how would they explain Mao Asada's free skate score of 142.71? She skated early in the second group, too - not that Asada didn't deserve the score.  


When this scandal is investigated, they have to take the SP results into serious account as the fix was in way before the ladies event started.




Here's my blog reader's take on the SP results in Sochi:

Yuna's Send in the clowns was one of the most exquisite and elegant SP I've ever seen and it would have written a new history and broken her Vancouver record if the judges awarded the grades properly. 
It seems as though they were looking for things to lower her grade because she simply had no errors - Her Triple lutz toe combo only got 1.5 GOE when she should have gotten close to 2 or higher based on her perfect execution.  Adelina got 1.6 GOE for Triple Toe-Tripple Toe combo (even when Yuna's Triple combo was technically more difficult.
Yuna's Triple flip GOE was only 1.1, which is also under-rated and lower than Adelina's, which is also a mystery - some judge gave 0 GOE to Yuna's flip although it would have been eliminated as the lowest score.
And Yuna nailed double axel and only got GOE of 1 when she should have gotten close to 2 or higher based on her perfect execution. Adelina got the same GOE of 1 as well and the execution was not as perfect as Yuna.
And Yuna's step sequence was given level 3. I mean did judges even have eyes? while Adelina got level 4 and GOE of 1.5, which was so inflated.  And FCSp4 component - Yuna only got 0.93 and Adelina got 1.29. 
And PCS? Are you kidding me? Judges gave Yuna couple 7's and lots of 8's when her performance clearly deserved 9's and even 10's. Even when Yuna's SP was yet to polished completely when she debuted it in Zagreb, the PCS score was even higher. Adelina, when not as polished as Yuna, got 8's and 9's all over in PCS. 
So basically, the judges managed to make up for the Triple combination base value difference with anything else they could salvage. I can't help but think Yuna was just grilled for no reason other than to make some else a gold medalist. 
If only Yuna would have gotten proper score, TES would increase about at least 2~3 points and PCS score should increase at least about 2 points as well in SP only.



Some people call figure skating fans like myself crybabies. I hope they know by now that they are mistaken 'cause I just want true sportsmanship and integrity to be restored to the sport of figure skating.  So, if you agree with me, please sign the petition and also this new petition for the future of the sport.  Of course, I have already signed, not because I'm a Korean American but because I love and respect the sport, especially the beautiful and precious skaters.

=======


P.S. Dearest Tara, would you please stop insulting and disgracing Kim Yuna on national TV?  Do you really think she had no guts out there?  Let me quote Tamar Katz. a four-time Israeli national ladies figure skating champion:

Let's flip this around. Let's say we were in South Korea and Yuna skated earlier and Adelina drew to skate last? What do you think would have happened? I personally think Adelina would have caved under the pressure. Yuna waited 45 minutes to skate and took the ice knowing that she had to be perfect to win. The Russian crowd is not a friendly crowd. The judging in the short program was dubious at best. It takes a whole other kind of athlete to deliver a clean performance under those conditions. 

You didn't notice Kim's face looked quite puffy and sick, did you?  She was (and still is) suffering from a cracked foot (1.5 centimeter(1/2 inch)-long) and injured shoulders. She was in hospital even one day before her flight to Sochi. Yet, she pulled off two straight stellar performances in front of the roaring, chanting Russian crowd and in front of those judges. 


And she surely didn't go to Sochi to "take a vacation".  If you must continue to commentate, then please learn how to read between the lines; and if you must continue to work with the skaters from other countries than the US, please learn about their cultures and manners.


Asians, especially Kim Yuna, tend to be more careful and reserved about the things they do and say 'cause they are more people-oriented while people in America like you tend to be more of a goal-oriented individualist.  Even  back then in Vancouver, she never said, "I will win gold!; I want to be the Olympic champion" or anything even close to that.  (Of course, she was hungry for a gold medal.)  And as a matter of fact, not even once since she became a senior skater. 


Please stop behaving like America is the center of the universe and I hope you show the Queen some respect she deserves.  


And Johnny, Kim was not flat.  We call it poised and graceful.


And you two surely look cute in those matching outfits.


================


(UPDATE 4)  Statistical Analysis of Sochi Ladies Figure Skating results, made based on Tiziano Virgili's analysis.  Mr. Virgili is a professor of Physics at University of Salerno and he worked at CERN.  For more details, please go to read his statistical anaysis:   http://www.mediafire.com/view/3g8cai3...




================

(UPDATE 3)  Want to know how the scores are rigged in figure skating?  Then watch the video below.







(UPDATE 2)  I just found this amazing video epitomizing what's wrong with the figure skating judging in Sochi.  Bravo, Brava, Bravi to whoever made this!





(UPDATE 1) As stated above, the GOE marks are given to skaters in terms of the quality of execution, technique, height, speed, flow and "ice coverage".  In figure skating, "ice coverage" means the "use of the ice surface".  And skaters who cover more ice while gliding or executing required elements are said to have greater ice coverage and get higher GOE marks.


As Patrick Clarke mentioned in his article, "On the ice, her (Kim's) elegance and ice coverage set her apart and give her a critical edge," but in fact, it wasn't reflected on her marks.


Now compare Kim's ice coverage throughout her free skate to Sotnikova's:







•  Please sign these petitions for the future of the sport

(1) International Skating Union (ISU): Open Investigation into Judging Decisions of Women's Figure Skating and Demand Rejudgement at the Sochi Olympics 
(2) Apologize and give Yuna Kim the gold medal back. Purify ISU Judging system and and give everyone solemn words that ISU will not be affected by sponsorship and lobbying, for the sake of sportsmanship 
 Join this Facebook group - Golden Yuna - created by a Canadian figure skating fan.
• Visit this "Sochi Scandal" site on Pinterest.


220 comments:

  1. How do you face that the Koreans themselves continually cheated in the 1988 and 2012 Olympics and are now whining when it was done to them. Any answer for that or are you continually Anti-Russian?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Korea never hosted 2012, but with 1988, I wasn't there so I don't know the whole story, what exactly happened. Nevertheless, how the gold was won, NObody truly thinks it's the real Gold of integrity. I don't think any decent Korean, let alone other non-Koreans, really think that Gold was worthy of gold at all.

      Delete
    2. Your logic is like saying, "You killed a person before, so me killing a person isn't wrong." Ridiculous. Please logically and rationally analyze the present-case scenario. Everyone with eyes knows Yuna Kim demonstrated a far more artistic and technically-perfect performance than Sotnikova.

      Delete
    3. You pathetic lol how can you compare "killing someone" with "stealing medal"? Very impressive and idiotic lol

      Delete
  2. Dear Anonymous, I felt humiliated and ashamed of those scandals and would have signed the petitions if there had been any at that time. And I was wondering which part of my post made you think I'm anti-Russian? I was (and still is) a huge fan of Artur Dmitriev/Natalia Mishkutenok, Alexei Yagudin, and Leo Tolstoy.

    ReplyDelete
  3. On second thought, South Korea didn't host the 2012 Olympic Games. :)

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous,
    1988 is neither here nor there. Korea has its share of Olympic scandals, but athletes, irrespective of flag, deserve to be treated fairly and cannot bear the guilt of their nations.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Onsemiro,
    Very good article. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hey, you stupid head calling yourself anonymous. Are you out of your mind or what? Who cheated in 1988 and 2002? But all we all know is it was totally home cooking that made whole world furious except for some like you:)

    ReplyDelete
  7. Can you also address Lipniskaia's HUGE PCS inflation?

    This isn't an issue of Sotnikova vs Kim, but of the Russians rigging the scores in favor of Russian skaters from the very beginning.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Above that anonymous comment is really lame. Anti-Russian? wow. LOL.
    Anyway,thank you for your great post!! I really appreciate it. I was getting annoyed with NBC and disappointed with commentators.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Shame on Sochi!
    Not much to say, but thanks to Adelina, I had a good laugh watching the gala show.

    ReplyDelete
  10. You didn't post any Yuna jumps from Sochi, you showed Yuna Kim's best jumps, but we can only judge and compare jumps based on how they were *actually* skated on that particular night. Likewise for Sotnikova, who made many errors in her very difficult FS before, but performed almost flawlessly except for one jump. Sotnikova performed all the elements with aplomb, greater height, distance, speed, energy, flow, they were visible in slow motion. Her spins were much better. Her program was more original with greater complexity in steps and moves and she skated with greater passion. If Kim has skated her Vancouver 2010 performance against Sotnikova's, I think she would have won, but her Sochi 2014 skate simply wasn't in the same league. Each competition is judged anew, this is the only fair and just way.

    After watching the FS again, I agree with the NYTimes, with Tara, Weir, and many many other skating experts who agree with the results.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tara and Weir kept changing their minds, I noticed. Anyway, who are other "many, many" skating experts? Many many experts like Witt, Kurt Browning, Robin Cousin, Michelle Kwan, etc...did not agree with the results. They were appalled.

      Delete
  11. Thank you for posting this. If you know figure skating, you just know all of these things by heart. This is such a common sense in figure skating.. Those commentators and others who contributed to this scandal are certainly deceiving themeselves.

    ReplyDelete
  12. so,, anonymoud agreed russian cheated this time.. right?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Thanks so much for this article! For your point about increasing the pc... this graph should help view the matter better. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2rm4orl&s=8#.Uwmkn_l5MZx

    ReplyDelete
  14. This posting perfectly explains why Yuna was not technically worse also! Thank you for your posting.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Thank you for your posting that perfectly explains why Yuna was not technically worse!

    ReplyDelete
  16. my God you're back!! What happened to you and or where have you been. I was worried something might have happened that caused you to stop blogging.

    I completely agree with the unfairness but it seems unlikely the results will be overturned.

    I just hope we get to see more Yuna in great shows and less of worry over scores!

    I missed the gala ending and am so sad I can't find anywhere to see it. Hopefully we'll see videos soon.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Thank you so much for this amazing article. You have beautifully summed up everything that was wrong with the judging at these Olympics. Anyone who thinks that Yuna was not robbed needs to read this article to get the facts. I am sick of all of the false information circulating in the media about this and all of the excuses people are trying to come up with for why Yuna supposedly lost. Thank you for exposing the truth.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hi,
    Your post is very informative.
    Perhaps you can have gifs of all of both Kim and Sotnikova's jumps (Sochi SP and LP) so we can all see the differences in execution (even though the jumps may be different).
    It would be nice for people (although in the minority) who believe that Sotnikova was "flawless" to see what "flawless" really means.
    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Thank you very much for your write-up. I really appreciate it. This is the best appraisal of the Sochi judging I've read so far. I feel no much better now!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Thanks for such informative article. I'm not Korean, not Russian - just human being, a figure skating fan who believe there should be justice in everything. Those skaters trained for years, had grinding training program every day, had to sacrifice precious time with family and friends to achieve their dream. It's heartbroken if all their hard work and enthusiasm being pummeled by unjust and biased judging system. This will demotivate them to improve themselves better - because why should them? The judges gonna deny their right anyway! This makes me mad, because I believe in fair sportsmanship.

    I didn't blame the other skater, in my opinion, she was just a victim, a scapegoat, in this game. But again, I should emphasize, that it's the shady judging system that should and must be changed - to avoid another 'Sochi'.

    This year will be remembered forever, along with Salt Like city (if anyone remember what happen).I think, Yuna should be praised for being the modest person amidst this chaotic scandal. While her fans and spectators all over the world were crying for justice, she held her head up and accepted the result like a classy woman. It's just sad that this controversy happened at the end of her career.

    I wish Sotnikova will improve herself as next month in Saitama World Championship, everybody (including me) will be watching closely. We expect world-class performance, more athletic jumps (if that what validate her win in Sochi) and more proofs that she is capable of carrying the Olympic title over her shoulder.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Anonym@12:19 AM, Only because I'm not quipped with such ability to gif from videos, I couldn't post any od Yuna's jumps from Sochi. It wasn't intentional but those are not necessarilty her best jumps - I just used the gif's circulating on line. And I DON'T THINK her jumps in Sochi, Russia are flawed or any worse than her previous ones in London, Canada.

    I will immediately switch the gif's if their Sochi versions are available on line. Definitely, I'm confident any gif's taken from any angle will show the quality of her jumps that no other can surpass.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Anonymous @1:39 AM, thanks for the picture. I'll upload it to this post right away. :)

    ReplyDelete
  23. Babablue, yes, I'm back from a long, long hibernation... I'm very sorry and also grateful that you were really worried. I'll explain why sometime later. ;)

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  24. Anonymous @5:40 AM, Exaaaaaaaaactly!!!!!!!!!!!

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  25. This site has some gif of the competition. ;) http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/64956111

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  26. How convinient to avoid her progress in 2014 European Figure Skating Championships with 202.36 scores and notice the fake gap in 53 points! And there was also a little mistake, but her program is really really difficult and that lead her to the second place after Lipnitskaya. She went on risk, that is why she won. Or in Budapest judges also were corrupted?

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  27. Sotnikova and Lipnitskia both received inflated scores. Further, Sotnikova and Lipitskia did not rec'd and deductions using wrong edges and rec'd huge component scores. In less than a year, Sotnikava score has a big jump from 170s-180s mark to 220s mark. In order to improve 50 points in a year is nearly impossible for skaters. At the very beginning of figure skating TEAM event, Russian skaters rec'd INFLATED SCORES. Current scoring system and anonymous judges system need to be changed for preserve fair and healthy figure skating sport.

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  28. Anonymous @3:17 PM, Again, it wasn't intended or not for my own convenience; but luckily, I just found and uploaded some pictures that show Sotnikova's a-year-long, "gradual" improvement in her "artistry". Hope it suits your feelings.

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  29. YES YES YES... this was exactly what I wanted to do but I didn't even know where to begin... THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for your effort into making this page... You basically spoke my mind!! How are you more knowledgeable than the judges?? ;) Oh but like someone pointed out, Could you please capture all of the jumps and each spin and step sequence etc., for both Yuna and Adelina? I know Yuna had a shaky landing on lutz in free (fully rotated so no downgrade may I say but probably didn't call for that high of GOE for that one) - just to make sure Yuna did everything right other than that.

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  30. Anonym @11:00 PM, Yes, you're right. Kim's triple lutz was fully rotated in the air and there was no two-footed landing like Sotnikova's -- just a shaky landing on the exit. BTW, I don't know how to make GIF files but will definitely upload the Sochi files as soon as they're available on line.

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  31. Here's my take on the short program if it helps to enrich this page.

    Yuna's Send in the clowns was one of the most exquisite and elegant SP I've ever seen and it would have written a new history and broken her Vancouver record if the judges awarded the grades properly. It seems as though they were looking for things to lower her grade because she simply had no errors - Her Triple lutz toe combo only got 1.5 GOE when she should have gotten close to 2 or higher based on her perfect execution... While Adelina got 1.6 GOE for T-T combo... Yuna's Triple flip GOE was only 1.1, which is also underrated and lower than Adelina's, which is also a mystery - some judge gave 0 GOE to Yuna's flip although it would have been eliminated as the lowest score... And Yuna's step sequence was given level 3... I mean did judges even have eyes? while Adelina got level 4 and GOE of 1.5, which was so inflated... and FCSp4 component - Yuna only got 0.93 and Adelina got 1.29. And Yuna nailed double axel and only got GOE of 1 when she should have gotten close to 2 or higher based on her perfect execution. Adelina got the same GOE of 1 as well and the execution was not as perfect as Yuna... And PCS? are you kidding me? Judges gave Yuna couple 7's and lots of 8's when her performance clearly deserved 9's and even 10's... Even when Yuna was't polished completely with her program when she debuted it in Zagreb, the PCS score was higher... Adelina, when not as polished as Yuna, got 8's and 9's all over in PCS... So basically, the judges managed to make up for the Triple combination base value difference with anything else they could salvage... I can't help but think Yuna was just grilled for no reason other than to make some else a gold medalist... If only Yuna would have gotten proper score, TES would increase about at least 2,3 points and PCS score should increase at least about 2 points as well...

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  32. Anonym @11:44 PM. thanks a lot for your elaboration. I'll think about a way to include your precious comment in this post tomorrow - it's past midnight here. :)

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  33. Until people judge the figure skating, will always present a human factor. Same s...t was in Salt Lake City in 2002 when Slutskaya robbed of GOLD In USA's Controversial Olympics, and same s...t was in Vancouver in 2010, when Plushenko robbed of GOLD. I'm glad for Adeline and Russia.

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  34. Thank you so much. What I have been trying to say for the last couple of days just summarized here. As I keep saying, to Johnny and Tara and Scott and Michelle and so many dumb journalists out there, this is not a controversy between technical points and pcs. It's about the huge goe inflation and the pcs. Just faxed my letter to ISU today by the way, since they thought it best to shut down their contact page of ISU website.

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  35. I don't know if you know Korean, but here a detailed capture of step sequences for both Yuna and Adelina- Hope this helps!
    http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/sochi2014/65062440

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  36. Here is a detailed rebuttal on New York Times Article

    http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/sochi2014/65081423

    Hope this helps!!

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  37. Anonym @8:36 AM, thanks for the info (http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/sochi2014/65062440 and yes, I know Korean. I'll go check this site. Thanks again.

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  38. Thanks so much for the information and analysis. Let alone myself, even my 7 year old son could not understand the result. Thanks to you now I know how they rigged the scores. Hope this information be widely spread and used to set it right.

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  39. Oh, I think there's something about Adelina's spin - She switched hands, I think, during her spin. It would nice if you can capture that - She was not performing a level 4 spin.

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  40. http://tvpot.daum.net/v/v87a2CxPLCLTHxxCQQJLXGL

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  41. Anonymous @3:01 PM, thanks for this very useful link: Kim vs Sotnikova - Step Sequences Move by Move
    And I was wondering if there's any Youtube version.

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  42. That's it. It's not biased but absolutely based on those facts at this Ladies event and recent competitions. Hats off to you. I've been watching figure skatings for more than twenty years and really more than happy to find another huge fan os this sports.

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  43. One thing you have to ask is this: if you were to cheat, why would you cheat in such a blatant way? Just have Adelina win by a point or two. Sure, there would still be an uproar, but at least it would make the casual observers think that she really deserves it. I think there are three reasons for this:

    1. Not all judges were onboard with the scam, and so the corrupted judges didn’t have complete control over the scores.

    2. The corrupted judges were scared. They cheated in the short program and yet Adelina’s score still fell just short of Yuna’s. So they inflated Adelina’s free program score and deflated Yuna’s even more, resulting in such a big margin.

    3. This is the most important point: Adelina was NOT originally the anointed one. It was originally going to be Yulia. Imagine if Yulia had skated as she had in the team competition. It would have been much tougher to cry wolf if the gold medal winner actually had an excellent performance and the scores were only inflated by a little bit. Alas, Yulia fell in the short program. Fortunately (for Russia, unfortunately for everyone else), Yulia was the 25th skater in the short program while Adelina, the backup, was the 29th……

    I’m a Hong Kong-born Canadian living in the US. I don’t know if that’s enough to convince you that I’m not biased (or how you can prove I am who I say I am), but I don’t care. I have signed the petition on change.org because I don’t think it’s fair. I suggest you sign it as well if you feel the same way:

    https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/international-skating-union-isu-open-transparent-scores-and-remove-anonymity-from-the-judging-decisions-of-women-s-figure-skating-at-the-sochi-olympics

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  44. http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/65097603 (English)

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  45. Another question to ask: Let's assume there's no cheating here. Let's assume Adelina really won because she worked the scoring system to her advantage by including one more triple jump. Do you really want to continue following a sport which ranks her clunky performance over the otherworldly performance of Kim Yuna's? The only way to get the ISU to change is by boycotting it. Otherwise it could very well think that a little controversy is good PR for the sport. How many of you are planning to watch the World Championships next month just to see how Adelina falters?

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  46. You asked "And judges, could you kindly explain to me why you gave her +3 point GOE's 33 times while Kim only received +3 point GOE's only 13 times in Free Skate? How could you possibly do that?"
    It is because Kim YuNa is just that good. Meaning in order for their "plan" to work they needed that cushion because they knew Kim was going to skate perfectly if you know what i mean.
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
    Speaking of judges..you have to wonder if this person scored the particular columns that caught my eye..
    https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/russian-figure-skater-gold-medalist-hugs-judge-moments-after-win-103935597.html

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  47. Regarding 88, the Koreans rigged the Roy Jones fight in direct response to the Americans jobbing 3 gold medal bouts in the 84 LA Olympics. Another 2 fights may have been legit but were also bitterly disputed. In all 37 of 38 fights that went to the judges went to the home team. You basically had to score a knockout if you were paired with an American.

    Newspapers from Yugoslavia to Italy howled with outrage (just like today with everyone from the Japan Times to LA Times vocally opposing this Sochi job). In the US boxing beat writers and fans everywhere were disgusted that we had to resort to such home cooking when the Cubans and Soviets weren't even in attendance.

    The idea is that with the Soviet block boycott the US had thought to make a Kansas Land Grab for hardware as had never been seen in the vacuum of the counterbalance of our traditional nemesis. All that stood in our way were a bunch of crappy little boxing countries.

    Basically Cold War politics outweighed sport. Like today, many will argue that with Russia flaming out in hockey, Putin's only way out was a 1st Russian gold in ladies' figure skating to justify his $50 billion expenditure, suppression of minorites, etc

    The problem was, these little crappy countries didn't take too kindly to being bullied and in 1988 the Koreans tried some payback and got caught.

    Anonymous is being the typical Koreanboo troll, posting stuff he thinks is insulting when really has no clue about the larger context (or even VALIDITY) but ironically in this case it's relevant here.

    The issue is that it was BOTH 84 + 88 that finally forced boxing to reform itself or get removed from the Olympics. Because even after 84, most thought that with BOTH superpowers in attendance, it would serve as a counterbalance to such shenanigans. And in any case no one was the United States. No one had our political or media clout. The Soviets had had their Olympics so people were disgusted but they let it go.

    But in 88 when the Koreans didn't know their place and rigged the Jones fight more crudely than even the Americans had dared it was a huge shock. Because if even the Koreans could pull this crap, (with BOTH the USSR and the US in attendance!) everyone realized it could be an ongoing thing. THAT is what caused the reform. Stupid Koreaboos post shit they can't even comprehend then can't even follow the logical conclusion. Let alone make the connection for the actual discussion being held.

    The WARNING for skating is this. Boxing reformed but never recovered. In the 80s boxing was a huge draw in the US and around the world. It was bigger than the NBA and arguably the NFL. But 84 marked the beginning of the end. When people started losing faith in the sport it began its inevitable decline. ISU should heed this cautionary tale.

    My wish for Yuna isn't a legacy of 2 gold medals but to leave the sport better for every skater that comes after her. If somehow the IOC could get on the ball and the US media take its head out of its ass, if this travesty could somehow bring more transparency and consistency to the sport, then Yuna's sacrifice would have been worth even more than a gold medal. Just like Roy Jones, who left a better sport and went on to a brilliant next life.

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  48. Something needs to be noted about the Koreans in this too. They cheated, which was abhorrent. But they apologized, including the boxer who reached out personally to Jones. The Koreans punished and shamed all those involved. The US never has even acknowledged its part in the events. And to this day angry Koreaboo expats who are ignorant of part or all of the story use it as social currency "against Koreans" because of ignorance and lack of imagination.

    The 88 Olympics area high water mark because it marked one of the actual high points of the Olympic Spirit when finally after decades of violent street battles Koreans ousted the brutal American-backed dictatorship that sanctioned such cheating in sport, and much much worse to its own citizens. Sport being a catalyst for chance is the dream, and the Koreans achieved it in the form of a stable democracy that persists to this day

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  49. Anonymous @11:47 PM, thanks for the link. Hope everyone goes to read this: feverskating.com/fevers/65097603(English)

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  50. THANK YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting this amazing blog post!!

    I have been looking online a LOT in the last couple days, at many different websites (and readers' comments), reading about the absolutely ridiculous events that took place last week with the Ladies Figure Skating results (corrupt, biased scoring!! Home cooking!), and with Yuna being robbed of her well-deserved gold (as well as her well-deserved place in history, as one of only 3 women to get back to back gold medals in this field).

    Damn those corrupt judges!! They should be completely ashamed of themselves!!

    Anyway, I just wanted to say that your article was one of the best I've read on this topic, and maybe even THE best. It really lays it all out in a very smart and very detailed way (and coming from someone who knows figure skating and scoring well) - in a way that makes total sense, and which ANYONE can make sense of. No can argue with it.

    I just wish everyone could read it, incl. all the major media outlets!

    A lot of them are still spewing inaccurate info out there - for example, saying Adelina had 7 jumps in her program, and Yuna had only 6. As if that settles the question.

    It SOOOO does NOT. What about all the low GOE scores the judges gave Yuna - for her "textbook perfect" jumps? THAT lowers her scores.

    What about the ridiculously jacked up Components (artistry, etc) scores they gave Adelina? They were essentially tied with Yuna's scores! (and Yuna's style is majestic and the best in the world!) Adelina was a complete amateur in comparison, and many top experts agree (Dick Button, and many others).

    I just wish your article/blog post could be distributed to all the major media outlets - it would explain a lot of this to people (a lot of people only know about HALF the relevent info) - and I wish this info could be spread around a lot more. (instead of read by just us readers here, who happened upon your page through someone, say, posting this link on youtube or wherever)

    Thank you again.

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  51. Suzanne, I'll find a way to post this page on Youtube. Thanks much and let's hope for the best!

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  52. Does anyone feel the same way I do?? I still really want an investigation into this, and for a re-judgement to take place! (or similar)

    I still really want Yuna to get her well-deserved/ her rightful gold medal, and also claim her rightful place in history, as one of only 3 women in history to get back to back gold medals in ladies figure skating.

    She is not "ONLY" an Olympic gold medalist (like K Yamaguchi, T Lapinski, etc)... which, needless to say, is an incredible feat on its own!

    Bu she is also a LEGEND, an ICON in this field... a once-in-a lifetime, transcendant, gorgeous, immaculate skater, who comes around maybe once every 100 or 200 years... and the type of skater that skating coaches all over the WORLD will use as a model for their young skaters to emulate themselves after... the type of skater whose performances and jumps are considered "TEXTBOOK" and will be shown on video to kids all over the world who are learning to skate seriously, as the "perfect" triple lutz, triple toe loop, etc.

    Doesn't a skater of that caliber deserve to be in the history books along with Katarina Witt and Sonja Heinje, as one of only a few women who achieved back to back gold medals in Olympic history in ladies figure skating? (Not to mention that Yuna ALSO happens to be a beautiful soul.. gracious, humble, and very giving)

    It's not so much that she deserved the gold on Thurs. for that reason alone, of course - but primarily b/c she won it fair and square!! She was clearly the superior skater that night, and was robbed of gold by those corrupt judges who OVER-INFLATED the scores of the Russian skaters (Adelina and Yulia, most prominently), and DOWNGRADED Yuna's scores (GOE, Components, etc)

    At any rate, I have to admit I'm pretty frustrated b/c it seems like not a whole lot is being done about this matter, to try to change things.

    I've seen a LOT of news articles about this online in the last couple days (the scoring controversy), incl. in ALL the major media outlets, (and internationally too). And I've seen that a TON of people are writing comments about it too - mostly people who are mad as hell about the results, and at the biased scoring that nite, and the f**ed up system in general.

    And of course, there is that online petition going on at Change.org (with more than 2 mill signatures now).

    I also read online that both the S. Korean Olympic Committee and the S. Korean Skating Union have filed complaints with the IOC and the ISU (Int'l Skating Union). I also read somewhere that the Pres. of the ISU (Ottavio Cinquanto) agreed to meet with the S. Korean Skating Union or something like that. (not sure *exactly* how reliable that source was though).

    (Continued below)

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  53. I hope those latter things make a real difference, as it seems unlikely that things like online petitions, and even millions of people fuming all over the world about this, and ranting online, will make a difference in any change outcome.

    However, I wonder if it'll be quite enough. As everyone knows, changing or overturning any decisions when it comes to medals is notoriously difficult to do, and it happens very rarely.

    (However, it *HAS* been known to happen. Like in 2002 with those pairs skaters, who got silver, but who were later given gold, due to the head honchos discovering some corruption going on with the judges. So basically, there were TWO pairs of skaters given gold that year, instead of one)

    I have not heard any news lately about if anything has resulted with the letters sent from the S. Korean Olympic Committee and S. Korean Skating Union, or if the Pres. of the ISU has met with them. Has anyone heard anything??

    What I'm afraid of, is that this matter might just fade away pretty quickly over the next several days (as people start to think less about it, and people are all so very busy/pre-occupied nowadays too)... and nothing will have been done, and there will have been no investigation, and that Yuna will not be given her rightful gold medal.

    (I fully realize that even if there WERE to be an investigation, there's no guarantee she'd get a gold medal, esp. if they don't conduct the investigation right... but there at least should BE one, in the hopes that it COULD happen, right? If it's not done, there is ZERO chance of any change happening)

    I am wondering if there is anything else we can do (besides just signing that online petition). It would be a shame if there are MILLIONS of people all over the world (and not just Korean people, but figure skating fans all over the world!!), angry about this injustice, and we don't organize ourselves well, don't band together, and create a major presence/pressure on the ISU and IOC about this. (that is probably what they're hoping for... that people will be mad for a while, and then forget after a while, and they won't have to do anything)

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  54. I know tons of people were emailing the ISU with angry emails after the results on Thurs. - so much so that they had to shut down their "Contacts" page... but I heard that now some people are FAXING them instead. (Not a bad idea... they can still be deluged with tons of faxes from all over the world! Imagine all the fax paper they'd have to go through!)

    Is there anything else we can do, to put some massive pressure on them? And before it's too LATE? (before this starts to become old news, and all the angry fans have kinda forgotten about this and gone on with their lives, and not taken any action)

    In other words, if there's any chance of getting a change, it's NOW. It's now or never. It's either we stay quiet and Yuna stays with her (undeserved) silver medal for the rest of her life, or MAYBE.. just MAYBE.. something can be overturned, and she can get her rightful gold medal, as well as her rightful place in history... which will also be FOREVER.

    PS. I know the judges's scores are all supposed to be anonymous - and thus people say an investigation would be very difficult to do b/c of that. HOWEVER, I also read that the judges' scores are all kept at the ISU headquarters in Switzerland (in a safe?)... so actually, it seems it WOULD be very possible to do an investigation if access to those scores were given.

    PPS. I know some of you will probably write stuff like - leave it alone, it's done, Yuna seems ok with the silver (although we can't know *exactly* what she's feeling inside), and anyway, silver is great, that's an accomplished medal to have as well.

    I understand that point of view... but I don't share it. (Each to their own, right?)

    Yuna deserved the gold. She was robbed of the gold. (by those shameful, corrupt judges). She deserves her rightful place in history. The S. Korean Olympic Committee, S. Korean Skating Union, S. Korean people (50 mill?), and figure skating fans all over the world are angry about this injustice, and right now, are in the process of trying to enact change.

    And this is the only time to do so.

    If you're on board, please write. Thanks for reading!

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  55. Suzanne, I agree with each and every word you've just said. But unfortunately enough, no official letters of complaint have been sent from the S. Korean Olympic Committee and S. Korean Skating Union to either ISU or IOC -- there's politics involved on this issue (within and without), and I'm currently writing about this issue. I don't think either KOC or KSU would make any move unless - yet probably - inevitable requests/pushes/forces from non-Korean fans surge in.

    I hope our efforts will pay off and I think I'll feel okay if we end up having two Olympic champions as we did in Salt Lake.

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  56. I thought the South Korean Olympic Committee has filed an official protest?

    http://olympics.cbc.ca/news/article/south-korea-protests-women-figure-skating-result.html

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  57. Thomas, no, they didn't. There was never an official documented complaint and
    that news is not correct.

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  58. It seems a bit confusing as to whether or not the KOC and the KSU had filed letters of protest or not, b/c it seems like different online articles have slightly different takes on the story.

    Here is what it said in an article in the NY Times, on Feb.22:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/world/asia/south-korea-puts-anger-aside-after-olympic-skating-disappointment.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&smid=tw-sochinyt&_r=2

    "And South Korea’s Olympic committee and skating union said they had sent letters to the International Olympic Committee and the International Skating Union asking them to look into the scoring. "

    But it also says the following, from the link you had just provided (from the CBC website, also dated Feb. 22):

    "The International Skating Union said Saturday that it has yet to receive an official letter from the South Koreans, and ISU rules stipulate any protest must be submitted immediately after the event."

    However, I think I also read another article (a few days ago), where the IOC spokesman, Mark Adams, said that they *had* received a letter of protest from S. Korea (it didn't specify WHO from S. Korea, but I'm assuming it was from the KOC) - but he said that it wasn't enough to prompt an investigation, b/c it was only a protest letter. (I think they need a complaint from the S. Korean skating team and/or KSU immediately after the competition ends, to prompt an investigation)

    I also read elsewhere (a few days ago), that the Pres. of the ISU, Ottavio Cinquanta, said he had been contacted by Korea (by the KSU?), and had agreed to meet with them.

    So.. the question is - did the KOC and the KSU really send letters of protest - and if so, were they then received by the IOC and the ISU? (And if so, what has become of it?)

    Also, one area of concern that I have, is that I read that the ISU rules state that if a team has any complaint about the scoring, they have to make the complaint within 30 minutes after the competition ends. (I guess before the awards ceremony gets under way?)

    My understanding is that the S. Korean team did *not* make that complaint during that time frame (ie. within 30 min.s after Yuna got her final score that nite). (This makes me wonder - why the heck NOT??)

    It makes me wonder if that might be a big impediment to getting an investigation under way (b/c they did not abide by those specific rules).

    (Continued below)...

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  59. Does anyone by chance know if that rule has any leeway to it, or is it an iron-clad rule that they offer no flexibility on?

    Also, I think this is very interesting... I just looked for some info online about the 2002 ice skating scoring controversy at the Salt Lake Winter Olympics - which resulted in the Canadian pairs skaters who gold silver, later getting gold (b/c the ISU found out some cheating with the scores had taken place by some of the judges). (The Russians got gold, btw... sound a bit familiar?)

    I think there are a lot of parallels b/t that story and this current situation with Yuna being robbed of her gold, and it going to Adelina.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Olympic_Winter_Games_figure_skating_scandal

    Here is some info from that page:

    "During the live broadcast, both the American (NBC Sports' Tom Hammond, Scott Hamilton and Sandra Bezic) and Canadian (CBC Sports' Paul Martini and Barbara Underhill) announcers proclaimed that Salé and Pelletier (the Canadians) won as they finished and expressed outrage when the judges' marks were announced.[2][3][4][5]

    There was immediate suspicion of cheating, according to ABC's Good Morning America and USA Today. Judges from Russia, the People's Republic of China, Poland, Ukraine, and France had placed the Russians first; judges from the United States, Canada, Germany, and Japan chose the Canadians. Suspicion fell quickly on the French judge, Marie-Reine Le Gougne.

    When Le Gougne returned to the officials' hotel, Sally Stapleford, chair of the International Skating Union's Technical Committee, confronted her. Le Gougne had an emotional breakdown in which she allegedly said that she had been pressured by the head of the French skating organization, Didier Gailhaguet, to vote for the Russian pair regardless of how the others performed.[6] She reportedly repeated this at the post-event judges' meeting the next day.[6] It was alleged that this was part of a deal to get an advantage for French couple Marina Anissina and Gwendal Peizerat in the ice dance competition that was to follow a few days later. However, in a later signed statement Le Gougne denied taking part in such a deal and also stated that she had truly believed the Russian pair deserved to win.

    Immediate Aftermath

    The Canadian press and public were outraged by the result.[7] The American press were also quick to take up the cause of the Canadian pair.[8][9] NBC, in particular, continued to play up the story and advocate the Canadians' cause.[2]

    Some in the United States and many in Russia, however, felt that Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze had deserved their win, and that it should not be marred by the alleged dishonesty of a single judge.[10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17] Some also highlighted the contrast in the reactions to Salé/Pelletier's win at the 2001 World Championships, held in Canada.[10][12] The Canadians were awarded gold despite Salé falling on the triple toe loop in the short program and then singling her double axel in the long. There was no media controversy and no investigation was launched.

    (Continued below)...

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  60. In response to Canadian and American outcry, International Skating Union (ISU) President Ottavio Cinquanta announced in a press conference a day after the competition that the ISU would conduct an "internal assessment" into the judging decision at its next scheduled council meeting. After many hostile questions from the press, Cinquanta also admitted that the event referee, Ron Pfenning, had filed an official complaint about the judging.[18] Later on February 13, International Olympic Committee (IOC) Director-General François Carrard held a press conference in which he publicly urged the ISU to resolve the matter as quickly as possible.[19]

    On February 15, Cinquanta and IOC President Jacques Rogge, in a joint press conference, announced that Salé and Pelletier's silver medals would be upgraded to gold. Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze were to keep their gold medals as well, since there was no evidence of wrongdoing on their part. Four of the nine judges on the panel felt they deserved it. Both pairs' point totals were thrown out. For the first time in history, the awarding ceremony was repeated, which Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze accepted to attend. The Chinese pair, Shen Xue and Zhao Hongbo, declined to attend the ceremony. Le Gougne was suspended effective immediately for "misconduct".[20]

    And there's more, but those were the most relevant parts.

    Is there anything we can take away from this, to help our current case?

    Also, what else can we do?

    I think a big part of it is that the KOC and the KSU have to make official complaints, and also make a bit stink about this to the IOC and the ISU.

    (as well as probably fans as well - of which Yuna has legions!... It would probably also help if the skating community - eg. previous Olympic winners, World Champions, prominent skating coaches, analysts, etc - also made some stink about it)

    I would be surprised if the KOC and the KSU DIDN'T do those things, b/c I would think they would be FUMING after Thur.'s results, just like the rest of S. Koreans and figure skating fans all over the world!!

    However, you (Onsemiro) had said that they haven't sent letters of protest yet, and there are political reasons behind it. What in the world could those reasons be?? I would think they'd be SCRAMBLING to send those letters!

    You said you were going to write a post about that soon, and I look forward to reading it.

    I think that, based on reading about the 2002 Salt Lake City Games, where the medals were later changed (due to corrupt judging), and also thinking that we still have a good amount of leverage on our side... that there is still a decent chance we can get something done about this.

    The question is - how exactly? What should we do? And how can we mobilize, so that we get more people on board and create more of a presence/pressure on the ISU and IOC?

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  61. Suzanne, I don't think the NYT news was written based on reliable, published sources. The fact of the matter is, neither KSU nor KOC filed an official complaint. Period.

    And Salle and Pelletier were awarded gold medals in Salt Lake, benefited from the fact that the event was held in North America and the NBC commentators Hamilton and Bezic were also very incensed over the results and cried foul out loud on national TV until the results were reverified.

    I now really wonder what's the motivation behind all those suspicious lies and false propaganda NBC and most of the US figure skating insiders are indulging in regarding the Sochi scandal.

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  62. Onsemiro,

    Do you have any idea why the KOC and KSU DIDN'T file letters of protest?? That would seem totally absurd!

    Yuna won the gold, fair and square - she was the best skater of the competition. From what I read, practically the entire country of S. Korea were INCENSED with the unfair results (and I believe it!) - I would think the KCO and the KSU would be no exception, of course!

    Why in God's name would they not file a complaint and ask for an investigation into the scoring??

    So, from your perspective, do you think there is any chance this result could be changed/overturned? (eg. like the way it was with the 2002 Salt Lake Games)

    I realize it's generally difficult, and that there are probably some big obstacles in the way - but I also think there is also some leverage on our side as well.

    A few include the fact that Yuna is no ordinary figure skater, but is an ICONIC one (as well as a celebrity in general, in S. Korea), and with MILLIONS of fans all over the WORLD. There were MILLIONS of angry fans fuming over the unfair results from last week.

    There was also a LOT of media coverage about this scoring controversy - it was mentioned in every major media outlet here in the US, and also internationally as well. There was also a lot of outcry that came with it. (incl. from some very prominent voices in the skating community - eg. Katarina Witt, Kurt Browning, Dick Button, Jamie Sale, Joannie Rochette, BBC and CBC figure skating tv commentators, etc)

    The entire NATION of S. Korea was fuming over this unfair result... and although the people there (as well as Koreans living abroad) will eventually forget abut this as they get on with their busy lives, I also don't think they'll ever REALLY forget, completely.

    Does the IOC and ISU really want to hold the next Winter Olympics in S. Korea (who *happen* to be the hosts of the next Winter Games), in the next 4 years (which will come very soon), with that mass, still-lingering feeling of ill will, resentment, and indignation, still hanging over their heads? Isn't there some leverage in the fact that they are the host nation of the next Winter Games?

    Also, although some people have said that this controvery might actually be *good* for the ISU and figure skating in general, b/c more people will be talking about it, as well as perhaps checking out more of the skating shows (on tv, etc), to see how certain skaters do...

    I think - more than NOT - it's HARMFUL to the ISU and to figure skating - not GOOD.

    I can't tell you how many times I've read on the "Comments" sections of many different websites over the last few days, that, as a result of this egregiously unfair scoring scandal that took place on Thurs., that people are now going to totally give up watching this sport on tv (or elsewhere).

    It's too frustrating, and unsavory... who wants to watch a competition in which the best performer doesn't win, but the winner is determined by politics, corrupt or overly biased judging, etc? What's the POINT then in watching?

    (Yes, a few said they watch primarily for the artistry and jumps, etc, and they didn't really care about the scoring or outcomes - but they were in the minority)

    I've also read a TON of comments in which people expressed that they now have less respect for the sport of figure skating than ever. Some people said they didn't even really consider it a sport... and the ridiculously biased judging that went on Thurs. only made people dislike it even more.

    Does the ISU really want to have that sort of lousy reputation? And esp. when it may also hit their bottom line, as more people give up watching and being interested in figure skating... and both their revenue, and their ad revenue, start to diminish? (Personally, I know I lost a lot of MY appetite for figure skating after last week's judging fiasco)

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  63. Suzanne, it's dirty politics: Samsung is an official sponsor of the Sochi 2014 Olympics, S. Korean will host the 2018 Winter Olympics, and current S. Korean President is in fact a Korean version of Sotnikova, if you will. It's quite complicated but I can't explain in details now 'cause I gotta go now. :) I'll try to post my second article asap.

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  64. The stuff here's exactly what the judges need to see, look back, and feel shameful on themselves!! Seriously, this is like everything put together basically. Tremendous, tremendous effort Onsemiro!! I applaud you! Just one thing though, I noticed for PCS you didn't include Euporean championships for Adelina. People will say what about the European championships(Sotnikova's PCS actually wan't that low in the 8's ). But it still is very suspicious that she suddenly was doing a lot better right before the Olympics, when she only got 170's in Grand Prix Final, which was only a month before.

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  65. Here is a link to an excellent article about this... very detailed, with the judges' scorecards, analysis, and seeming proof that something very fishy was going on:

    http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/02/whole-new-set-questions-about-adelina-sotnikovas-allegedly-rigged-gold-medal-win/358425/#disqus_thread

    The "Comments" section beneath it, is also worth looking at (as is usually the case with these sort of articles).

    Here's an exchange under the "Comments" that gave me a chuckle...

    Alex

    "The question isn't if Sotnikova is a better skater than Kim--it's if she deserved the Gold. People wouldn't be so riled up and they would be behind Sotnikova's Gold if they believed in her performance, but they didn't and she got these inflated scores causing confusion.

    Her gala performance is also another discussion- it was clumsy, strewn with mistakes, and it again made me question the Gold."

    Dooly

    "I guess her Gala performance was her version of "Send in the Clown."

    Also, there was a comment by someone there (Jefferson), who seemed skeptical of a "rigging" of the scores by the judges, and brought this up as one of the reasons why, in his well-written post...

    He said that everyone is talking about all of the scoring abnormalities in the Free Skate (nite 2), and using that as proof that cheating was going on... but no one's talking about the scores from the Short Program (nite 1).

    In the SP, the judges were different from the ones used for the LP (free skate). There were no Russian judges on nite 1 (SP)... it consisted of other, various nationalities (incl. a S. Korean judge).

    And yet, people had complained that Yuna had too small of a lead after the SP (Adelina and Caroline were practically tied with her), and that Adelina's scores were already too high after the SP, letting you know then that "the fix was in".

    How to explain, if the judges for the SP weren't the same as the ones for the LP (and didn't include the Russian judge, nor the crooked Ukrainian judge, etc), how Yuna's lead was already so slim at that point, and Adelina's score already so high?

    Any thoughts on that?

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  66. Suzanne, thanks for the link: http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/02/whole-new-set-questions-about-adelina-sotnikovas-allegedly-rigged-gold-medal-win/358425/#disqus_thread I think the Wire (and the Conde Nast) and the Atlantic, along with ABC are doing a great job, living up to the ethical standards of their profession.

    And about the composition of judging panel. I don't think it really matters where the 9 judges are from. What matters most is where the judges on technical panel are from.

    In Sochi, Alexander Lakernik of Russia is a technical controller and Vanessa Gusmeroli of France and Olga Baranova of Finland are technical specialists.

    The technical judges are the ones who call out on the wrong-edge takeoffs, under-rotations, and downgrades of jumps and other 9 judges give their own GOE marks accordingly.

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  67. Onsemiro,

    Besides the Wire, the Atlantic, ABC, etc, doing their ethical jobs and writing good articles about this controversy, don't forget the LA Times and sports journalist Bill Plaschke:

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-sochi-figure-skating-plaschke-20140221,0,4308145.column#axzz2uTcx4JFs

    It seems like THEY'RE doing a much better job than the NY Times in this case.

    Also, here is a link to an article that just came out 7 hours ago... a bit of an "update" article (just the sort of stuff I'm looking for), on the Wire:

    http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/02/international-skating-union-making-it-really-hard-question-adelina-sotnikovas-gold-medal/358552/#disqus_thread

    It's entitled "The International Skating Union Is Making It Really Hard to Question Adelina Sotnikova's Gold Medal".

    Not a very encouraging title, but not too surpising either...

    That said, from the article (as well as others I've read), it's clear that there have been, and continue to be, a MASSIVE amount of protests from fans ever since the debacle on Thur.s - so much so that the ISU removed the "Contact"/email page from their website, and they are deleting a lot of posts on their Facebook page (some of the ones ranting angrily about Thurs.'s corrupt scoring and outcome)

    The pressure is still ON.

    Btw, in an ESPN article from 2002, this is what it said about the Pres. of the ISU, Ottavio Cinquanta, and the scoring controversy at the Salt Lake Winter Games, where the silver medalists for pairs skating (Canadian) were later given gold, due to corrupt judging...

    "Cinquanta acknowledged that "public opinion helped a great deal" in influencing the ISU's action. "That's a good thing," he added.

    So "public opinion" DOES count for a lot here! (obviously!). Let's keep at it!

    Btw, here is the link to that article, on the ESPN website... it gives details about the 2002 Salt Lake case (how the silver medalists were later given gold), and also, toward the bottom of the page (in white sidebar), it shows you all the times medals changes/reversals took place in Olympic history (and explains how it happened).

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/figure/news?id=1333280

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  68. Oh, also, in your reply (Onsemiro), you said you don't think that it really matters where the 9 judges are from - what's more important are the 3 judges in the technical panel (who look at all the jumps and judge them)... and that they include Alexander Lakernik of Russia and Olga Baranova of Finland (the former being the vice president of the Russian Skating Federation and the latter being seen smiling next to Adelina, as she hugged the Russian lady judge)

    Do you know if those 3 judges were the same used in both the SP and the LP... or are they swapped out as well, the way the 9 regular judges are?

    Also, from your perspective, how much chance do you think we have of getting the ISU to do an investigation, and ultimately, of Yuna getting her deserved gold medal? Do you think there is any chance?

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  69. Suzanne, I agree, I came to really admire Bill Plaschke's professionalism: http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-sochi-figure-skating-plaschke-20140221,0,4308145.column#axzz2uTcx4JFs

    And thanks for other useful links: The International Skating Union Is Making It Really Hard to Question Adelina Sotnikova's Gold Medal and http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter02/figure/news?id=1333280

    And I think as long as we don't lose hope, there might be a chance. Let's wait and see.

    Gotta get back to work. ;)

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  70. thank you for your posting!

    Yuna's program was perfect better than Adelina...
    it was her last performace !
    shame to Russia who did not show mercy towards her...

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  71. Suzanne, no offense, but no one really knows how much chance we have in this. The 2002 case is very different because one of the judges broke down in front of several eyewitnesses and admitted that she cheated. One of the eyewitnesses was the event referee, who later filed an official complaint. No one broke down this time and no “insider” with integrity has stepped forward so far.

    Also, the judging system back then wasn’t anonymous, and so it was much easier to spot the cheater. This time around, even though we know as a fact that two judges in the short program gave Adelina inconsistently high component scores and Yuna inconsistently low ones, we don’t know who those judges are. Likewise for the judge who gave Adelina almost all +3 GOE’s in the free program.

    So I think the more important questions are “what” and “why”. What are our goals here? For me there are two:

    1. The best outcome is Yuna and Adelina both get a gold medal. Let’s just admit that there is no way IOC will strip anyone of a gold medal, let alone a Russian woman figure skater. This may mean that our focus should be to demonstrate that Yuna has been underscored, not that Adelina has been overscored. I’m not sure what it means in practical terms or how achievable it is though.

    2. Failing that, I would be content, but not happy, if we could get ISU to change the scoring system. The scoring system CANNOT be anonymous, and there has to be accountability with checks and balances in place. Also, with all the technologies we have available today, it’s really easy to implement some sort of challenge-and-instant-review system. Even the NFL has this.

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  72. Next question: why are you doing this? Why are you fighting this uphill battle? It’s so much easier to just say stuff like “Yuna will always be the real gold medalist”, “She will always be the Queen in my heart”, etc., and just let all of this slide. I’ll be honest, it’s really tempting for me to just let all of this go. I’m not Korean, and I’m not even a skating fan, but I was truly mesmerized by her performances in 2010, and I was equally mesmerized by her this time around. She is indeed without equal. I’m doing this because:

    1. I’m angry. Letting the ISU get away with this is like seeing someone robs an old lady in broad daylight and not do something about it. I can’t believe they have the audacity to cheat so blatantly in this day and age with videos of the performances replaying all over the internet. As if they think we are all blind and ignorant. As if we don’t have access to slow-motion videos replaying side-by-side.

    2. I’m angry. I see some comments of people saying Yuna lost because her program was “simple”, because she didn’t have the motivation to win. This is an insult to Yuna. Just because Adelina struggled through her programs doesn’t mean Yuna’s programs were simple. She is just so good that she made it look effortless. And would anyone without motivation go through all the injuries and hard work to come back to the Olympics to defend her title? Seriously? No matter how stoic she appears to be, I have to believe she’s devastated inside, even if she is indeed feeling relieved at the same time that all of this shenanigan is now over.

    3. Above all, I want justice! I am Canadian, and I was very disappointed that Virtue and Scott got a silver medal instead of a gold, but the American team was very, very good as well. I can accept that Virtue and Scott lost fair and square. But Adelina didn’t even come close to Yuna! And to think that had Yulia not fallen in both programs, Yuna would very, very likely have gotten a bronze instead…

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  73. Now the interesting part, how? What can we do? I have been thinking about this a lot lately. Without any of the judges or referees stepping up and doing the right thing, our situation is worse than the 2002 case. The only leverage we have is numbers. We need to have lots and lots of people with perseverance, and we can’t afford to sit and wait for someone else to do something. Here are some things I can think of or have read somewhere else. Please add anything you can come up with.

    1. Make lots and lots of noise for as long as it takes

    - Email a link to this blog post to any media outlets you can think of. NBC, CNN, CBC, BBC, etc.

    - Email ISU to demand an investigation. ISU has taken down their “Contact Us” web page but I found their email address somewhere else. It’s info@isu.ch.
    - If you have a fax machine, fax a letter to ISU.
    - If you have an extra stamp and envelope around, send them a good old-fashioned mail.

    - Contact KSU and KOC to demand that they take action.
    - Could someone post the relevant email addresses, fax numbers, physical addresses, etc. please?

    - Any chance we could get some of the “influentials” to help with our cause? I’m referring to experts such as Katarina Witt and Kurt Browning who disagree with the results. I don’t know who receptive they will be, but at least we can try. Perhaps try contacting them on FB?
    - Does anyone have a complete list of such people?

    - I don’t know whether this makes a difference or not, but perhaps we should get as many non-Koreans as possible to do this as well? I wonder how many people are dismissing this whole scandal because they think it’s just the Koreans whining about a Korean figure skater losing the gold medal.

    2. Hit ISU where it hurts
    - ISU is the governing body of skating, but who governs the ISU? IOC? An update to the change.org petition says that some people have been contacting the Ethics Commission of the IOC, but I can’t seem to find their email address. Does anyone have it? If not, fax/mail/call, whatever it takes.

    - In this article, there is an interesting sentence:

    “The IOC decision came just hours before the case was to be heard by an international arbitration panel for sport. The hearing was canceled.”

    Does anyone know what this “international arbitration panel for sport” is?

    - Where does ISU get its income? Sponsorship? Ticket sales to its events? I mentioned boycotting figure skating competitions in one of my earlier comments, and I think we can expand that to boycotting anything related to ISU as well: its sponsors, any channels showing their competitions, etc. We just need to find out what its income source is.

    Sorry I haven’t had time to dig up all the info yet, but I think the above is a good framework for moving forward. Please feel free to contribute any ideas you have.

    Last but not least, I think we need a better virtual gathering place than the comments section of a blog post (albeit an excellent one). We need a better communication channel. Any suggestions? Perhaps a FB group?

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  74. 난 한국인..!!!

    정말.. 러시아 너무 실망을 많이했따...

    자기 집이라고 너무 마음대로한다

    대한민국 얼음여왕 김연아 응원해주신 외국인 사람들 정말 감사합니다 !! ♥

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  75. Thomas, well said, very well said. I'll include your comment in this post.

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  76. Thank you Thomas for the constructive comment on how we should move on from here.
    I think facebook group is a good idea. I will join it immediately when it's created. Meanwhile, I'm going to write email(s) and also letter(s).

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  77. Thomas! Thank you so much for your excellent post! You took the words right out of my mouth, and voiced all of my thoughts on this!

    Also, I am SO glad that someone else (besides me) is trying to come up with tactics on how to put pressure on the ISU, in the hopes of getting Yuna her rightful gold medal. (In other words - to take ACTION!!)

    I have been frustrated b/c in the last couple days, I've seen an insane amount of activity online where gazillions of people were fuming about this unfair result and ranting... but other than ranting online (which the ISU probably won't really pay attention to), I don't think most of them were taking much action on it.

    To enact change, the ISU *ITSELF* has to be PRESSURED by all of us. So we need to take practical ACTION.

    I loved all of your suggestions on how to do this!! (which was at the end part of your post). YES!! Some of it was stuff that I had thought of as well, but also, you had some new suggestions I hadn't thought of either.

    And yes, you are right - we have to have as many people as we can, making as much noise as we can, for as long as it takes.

    And yes, that would best involve taking this discussion, and our plans, to a much larger audience of fellow outraged Yuna/figure skating fans... as excellent as this blog is (so glad I stumbled across it, Onsemiro!), obviously it alone is not large enough a venue.

    If only there was a way we could gather all, or most, of the outraged fans into one location (there are tens of millions of us out there - maybe even more!).. formulate a plan of action.. and then BLAST the ISU with our massive presence and massive pressure! (And also try to bring media attention to it too... and the more, the better... that would bring it much closer to getting results)

    Any ideas on how to gather up everyone into one place?

    (Continued below)...

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  78. One thought I had was... the Change.org online petition now has over 2,025,000 online signatures. That's a hell of a lot of people...

    I was thinking about trying to contact the person who started up that petition (someone named "Justice Seeker" in Vancouver), and seeing if we could send out mass emails to everyone who signed the petition (more than 2 mill people), letting them know of one place we could all gather online, to formulate our tactics and to take action against the ISU. I will look into that...

    But of course, as part of our plan, we also have to FORM an online gathering place. Any suggestions on that? Maybe start up a new, free blog page or web page? (I would suggest that rather than Facebook, b/c not *everyone* is on FB... myself included. I got off it not too long ago)

    And yes, I love all of the suggestions you mentioned at the bottom of your post about how we can take action, Thomas. Let's all do what we can, right now (eg. email the ISU, etc)

    Yes, I agree that we probably will need to contact (email, etc) the KSU and the KOC as well. I haven't seen much online about them making much clamor about this - which is TRULY surprising (Omsemiro said she was going to write a post about maybe the reasons why... political reasons).

    So I think we need to be getting on THEIR asses too, and pressuring them as well. B/c obviously, the ISU would seem more likely to consider an investigation/ make a change, if BOTH the official S. Korean groups (KOC and KSU) AND the throngs of angry fans make a lot of noise and put pressure on them - and not just one or the other.

    That is intriguing, the mention of an "international arbitration panel of sport"... we should look into that, and see if perhaps they could be involved in this somehow...

    And yes, I fully agree that we have to hit the ISU where it HURTS. (no better way to make an organization get their asses in gear)

    It might be relatively somewhat easy for them to ignore some angry emails from fans (unless, of course, they came from 2 mill+ fans!!), but they certainly could not ignore things that hurt them as an organization... eg., the popularity of figure skating going down, less viewership, less people attending their shows, less revenue from shows, less ad revenue (due to declining popularity), less respect and prestige as a group, as well as the general distaste of the sport (due to corrupt judging) from the mass public. That could hit them REALLY hard...

    Obviously, it would be hard to prove those things would take place for them, right now, in the present time (b/c those things would happen in the relative near future) - but we could try to convince them that those things would most certainly be the outcome, after last week's judging fiasco, and the disgust so many people felt with the results, and with the world of figure skating in general.

    (Continued below)...

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  79. One more thing - I know a lot of people are saying that an investigation into the scoring would be difficult to do, b/c all the judges' scores are anonymous... HOWEVER, I had read that the judges' scores are actually kept at the ISU headquarters in Switzerland (I think I read, in a safe?). I'll try to look for that article again (I kept some links).

    So, assuming that info is true, it would seem that an investigation COULD take place, if they wanted to.

    And yes, I agree with you that we should try to focus more on proving that Yuna's scores were DOWNGRADED, more so than focusing on Adelina's scores being INFLATED - b/c that would prove that Yuna would've still gotten higher scores than Adelina, had that not been the case (more than their 5 point difference, and enough to win the gold).

    (However, we must at least *mention* Adelina's jacked up scores too, b/c, COME ON... they were just too flagrant to ignore)

    One last thing (sorry, this is such a long post)...

    Thomas, like you, I've also felt at times tempted to just let this all go... after all, this is an uphill battle (though I don't think an insurmountable one), and also, it takes time and energy.

    But I couldn't let it go, for all the same reasons you had mentioned in your post.

    And let's think about the possible outcome of our time and actions...

    1) The best case scenario would be that Yuna gets her deserved gold medal! How wonderful would that be!

    As well as, of course, her rightful place in history as one of only 3 women to get back to back gold medals in figure skating. That would SEAL her iconic legendry in the history books FOREVER. (not that she's not an legend ALREADY, of course... but she *deserves* that spot in history)

    Also, she would be happy, and not feel "robbed" from this incident. S. Korean fans and figure skating fans all over the world would be ECSTATIC! Also, JUSTICE would be SERVED! And also, hopefully, the ISU would also learn from this, and take some serious steps to improve the scoring system at competitions (eg. get rid of anonymous judging, fire judges who were caught cheating and not let them back in, etc)

    I know it's an uphill battle, but I think those are outcomes worth fighting for right now. Don't you all?

    2) The other case scenario is that, it ends up not being successful - but we at least have the satisfaction of knowing we tried all we could, and we did our best. (Rather than having regret, and wondering... what might've happened if we had rallied together better and tried harder?... We'll never know...)

    At least the ISU and the IOC would've felt our pressure, and known that a massive number of people were angry with the result - and that we weren't just gonna "let it slide" and be quiet about it, and let them just get away with it - no sirree, bub.

    They might also be made aware that this incident might lower their sport's popularity, as so many people were disgusted with last week's results. They would also know that a ton of people thought the scoring was very unfair and biased, and they might consider trying to improve the scoring system to make it more fair for future competitions.

    So in essence, we would've made our voices and anger heard - and also, it would have to make them at least think about improving the scoring system.

    I will also leave you with two quotes:

    In an ESPN article from 2002, regarding the changing of the medals in the 2002 Salt Lake City Winter Olympics, where the pairs skaters from Canada who got silver, were later given gold (a decision by the ISU)...

    "Cinquanta acknowledged that "public opinion helped a great deal" in influencing the ISU's action. "That's a good thing," he added."

    Also, a quote from Margaret Mead:

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."


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  80. oh.... oh my.... I really sorry to you
    because my country, South Korea will never satisfy expectation your writing but i'm very thank you to write these long writings. thank you thank you very much...

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  81. Thomas (and everyone else), your brilliant, constructive suggestions are now posted separately at: What's Next? A Possible Agenda To The Next Stage I added 99.9% of the contact information you wanted to get.

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  82. https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/ioc-and-isu-for-overlooking-lobbying-corrupt-sponsorships-and-favoured-judging-apologize-and-give-yuna-kim-the-gold-medal-back-purify-isu-judging-system-and-and-give-everyone-solemn-words-that-isu-will-not-be-affected-by-sponsorship-and-lobbying-for-#

    Please sign this new petition! It not only touches on Sochi but overall lobbiying/sponsorship/favoured judging in figure skating.

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  83. Update:

    I went to the webpage for the Change.org petition (the one that was started last week by Justice Seeker, with now over 2 mill signatures), and I couldn't find any way to contact Justice Seeker from that page.

    I tried clicking on his/her name, but it just brings you to a mostly empty screen, with little info and with no contact info.

    Does anyone know how to contact the owner of a petition on Change.org? I'm sure there has to be a way... Can any of you take a lot at the webpage and see if you can figure it out?

    http://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/international-skating-union-isu-international-skating-union-isu-open-investigation-into-judging-decisions-of-women-s-figure-skating-and-demand-rejudgement-at-the-sochi-olympics

    I guess if worse comes to worse, I could try emailing the staff at Change.org, and see if they can help...

    Thanks.

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  84. Suzanne, there must be a reason why you can't find the owner's contact. And I don't think "change.org" can release any personal information of the owner. Isn't it against the law?

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  85. Dear Onsemiro,

    Thank you so much for this article. I'll do my diligence to bring justice. Meanwhile, I've created a pinterest page regarding this as well to make as much "noise" as we can.
    http://www.pinterest.com/queenyuna/

    Would you please include this as well?

    Thanks!

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  86. Onsemiro

    There is a huge wave of protests against the evaluation of the judges, but very, very few useful articles. Your analysis seems reasonable, since it is backed up by videos and statistics, But up to a point I am afraid.

    You show the "obviously drastic changes that have occured to Sotnikova's PC scores in such a short period of time". But you compare Sochi's results to the Grand Prix's. Everyone who succumbs to this argument, does the same thing. And everyone - yours included - bypass the results of the European Championship. I rewrite them from ISU's web page: Lipnitskaya 68, Sotnikova 69,6, Carolina Kostner 71. http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/SEG004.HTM

    As I've already said, I am not an expert on evaluation. I can understand though, that by comparing the 60.47 of the Grand Prix to Sochi's 74.41, and bypassing the 69,6 in Budapest, you just aim to create an impression. OK: Let's say that the judgement was fixed at Sochi. Was it fixed in Budapest too? Wasn't that 9 points elevation "incredible", didn't it take Yuna Kim "years to make this kind of improvement"?

    Tell me that Sotnikova had taken drugs or anything else, but do not skip on results which you use in another paragraph of your article, por favor!

    Then there are the videos. The videos show what every friend of figure skating already knows: that Kim's elegance is incomparable - only Kostner and Asada come close. Brushing aside the fact that we cannot watch the Sochi video (you have already replied to the anonymous on that) I stress that the videos hear are silent. Sotnikova may seem like a cheerleader, but in Sochi she did'nt skate the "Swan Lake". How should we judge the quality of the step sequences, without music, without the whole choreography? Would Kim's sequences be the same had she performed samba? I perfectly understand that a cheerful program cannot be an alibi for bad execution and immature performance but since truth lies in the eye of the beholder, I'd really want to know how a good (and not "corrupt") judge would watch that difference.

    I will add two, more general observations:

    I also observed the grim on Kim's face after her free program. You say that it was due to her injury. You may be right. What I thought though, was that she was dissapointed from herself and the whole situation. The crowd in Sochi most unfortunately resembled to a mob. They were crying for "Russia" all the time except when there was skating on the arena. No civil conduct, no Olympic Spirit. Even Lipnitskaya didn't endure the pressure.

    Now, there are people and there are people. Sotnikova surpassed herself under that situation, but I think that Yuna Kim, last in line, injured, but most of all undefended by the South Korean delegation, underperformed in comparison with her own standards. I believe that the delegation should at least have demanded that the organizers call the people to calm down. And then, South Korea didn't apply for misevaluation after the competition according to her rights.

    That seems a bit strange to me (or may be not...). And it also strange that Kim's fans in Korea, do not try to find the Korean judge of the short program in order to demand (politely!) some answers to the questions you post here. After all, if there was conspiracy and corruption in Sochi, one of your men was very close to the center of it!

    The second thing I wish to tell you, is that you cannot call for reevaluation and at the same time demand from the ISU to "apologize and give Yuna Kim back the gold". Such petitions only resemble to YouTube comments of the sort we have been reading from Kim fanatics all those years who were overlooking every other skater on the globe. I hope you get the idea...

    A serious petition requires seriousness, knowledge of the judging system and solid arguments. Some of them can be found in your article.



    My best wishes
    Andreas
    Kostner fan since 2003

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  87. Andreas, very insightful comment! I think the "apologize..." petition actually touches on the European championships - But like it is said in the petition, Adelina's PCS scores for Free program taking a leap from 69 to 74 is still unusually big, considering it's the same program. And Adelina came something close to clean (except she missed Triple triple combination jumps - only managed to do Triple lutz) in the European championships (In Grand Prix competitions this season, she was never able to put together a clean program compared to European championships)

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  88. Dear Onsemiro,
    Just wanted to give you an update:
    I've tried to send an email to couple of those people.
    I've got delivery failure notification from ulsg@unilat.org and samuel.schmid@gs-vbs.admin.ch

    Thank you for the post again!

    ReplyDelete
  89. Andreas, I didn't necessarily mean the grim on Kim's face after her free program was due to her injury. It might have made her exhausted but the reason behind her mysterious grim was that she knew what had been going on all along.

    Kim knew unless those two Russians all fell in free skate, she wouldn't win - I'm now writing about this but it's hard to concentrate due to other distractions.

    And about European Championships. Even though Europeans has a 100+ year-long history, it's one of the competitions sanctioned by ISU, just like 4 Contiennts, where the scores are usually inflated.

    And in 2014 Enropeans, Sotnikova received 37.15 (TES) and 33.58 (PCS) for SP and 62.03 (TES) and 69.60 (PCS) for FS. One thing that caught my attention is, in SP her PCS marks were lower than TES marks while it's vice versa in FS - 62.03 (TES) and 69.60 (PCS). She got a wrong edge call on her 3Lz and got lost of negative GOE's and I can't help but wonder the judges gifted her with much higher PCS marks to hold her up.

    As you may know, Grand Prix Final and Europeans were held just one month apart; and Europeans and Olympics were held one month apart, too. It took her just two months to receive sky-rocketed scores and even when you compare her European scores with her Sochi ones, it's obvious that no other skaters in figure skating history have received such a mega boost just in a month:

    TES: 99.18 (Euro) --> 114.63(Sochi)
    PCS: 103.18 (Euro) --> 109.96 (Sochi)
    TOTAL: 202.36 (Euro) --> 224.59 (Sochi)

    BTW, Kostner should have placed second behind Kim in Sochi.

    ===================

    Shawn, my research was not as accurate as I thought. :) I'll try to replace the wrong contacts ASAP.

    ==============

    Anonymous @6:53 PM,
    Sure, I'll include your link.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Regarding contacting Justice Seeker, the person who started the change.org petition, I notice that if you log in and then send him/her an "Add Friend" request, you can actually type a message to go along with it. So, that's exactly what I did. I asked him/her if he/she could update the petition with a link to this blog post. Let's hope we can get some traction that way.

    Suzanne, I'm not on FB either, but it's probably the easiest place for everyone to get together. I'll have to create an account and join later. The problem is, the Adios Yuna group only has four members. Let's get the word out!

    I'm afraid I agree with Andreas that a serious petition requires seriousness, and the second petition (the one asking for an apology) is not worded as nicely and professionally as the first one. Besides, we already have a petition with over 2M signatures. I'm not sure starting another one is going to help at all.

    Andreas, regarding your point about Adelina's PCS at the European Championships, note that even back then, there was suspicion that both her and Yulia's PCS were inflated. Take a look at this article.

    And I think I have found the reference to the safe. Take a look at the end of this article. It seems odd to me that the real protocols are stored in a safe physically. A computer sounds more plausible......

    ReplyDelete
  91. Onsemiro

    Thanks for your reply.
    I'd like to stress again the importance of some further search and survey, starting from the Korean judge.
    You cannot do that of course, but some of your Korean readers may try. It is important that your mobilization passes to a next level - from impressions and plane questions to some answers or "denial of answers" (if you get what I mean). And I really wonder why the Korean press did not ask some annoying questions to some Korean officials instead of just protesting to the results.


    Anonymous

    There have been many skaters in the world, some constistent and some not. Sasha Cohen was a brilliant skater but she could give the performance of her life one day and the next day fail in every attempt to jump. Yuna Kim is a most confident and consistent skater - no great variations in her PCS I suppose. Is there somewhere a solid criterion for PCS variations? I am not an expert, I wonder.

    That said, there's corruption everywhere (Europe included of course) and there are politics. Russia is antagonising the US in Ukraine right now and Europe is somehow more favorite to her neighbour. Sports have always been a weapon in peace, (we are not naive, neither born yesterday); as you may understand though, a theory which claims that there has been a general plan for elevating Russia in two successive first-rate events, has to be very well argumented in order to avoid been ranked among the various conspiracy theories.




    Thomas

    The article I was reffered by you, does not claim that Sotnikova's and Julia's PCS were inflated but that "Carolina was definitely undermarked".
    The two concepts are not the same. They overlap only in the idea that Kostner would have come second or first under a better evaluation - but that is not what I got from that article which actually praises the two Russians.

    Not a big deal of course - but indicative of why someone must be carefull when selecting evidence and arguments in order to set forth allegations against a powerful international body.

    As for keeping the protocols, to tell you the truth I prefer the traditional safe to the computer, as long as the safe opens from time to time.
    Otherwise, its contents start to smell awfuly.
    We totally agree on that.


    I'm glad I had this discussion with all of you.

    Andreas

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  92. Andreas, I know what you mean. However, even though the South Korean constitution guarantees freedom of speech, press, petition and assembly for its nationals, there's rarely any of it as it has deteriorated for the last 5~6 years. It's all politics - no wonder most of its media is now shushed by the upper power.

    Please read the following article if you have time:

    Limited Freedom of Speech: South Korea’s Slow Path to Democracy
    KOREAN HISTORY: Jürgen Hinzpeter's 1980 Documentary Film on Gwangju Massacre and 2012 S. Korean Movie "26 Years"
    KOREAN POLITICS: 2012 South Korean Presidential Election

    ReplyDelete
  93. http://bentleyvanguard.com/2014/02/27/4688046/

    There's a new article

    ReplyDelete
  94. Thanks for the link: http://bentleyvanguard.com/2014/02/27/4688046/

    And here's an article by Bev Smith on the "rotten Sochi judges": MORE ON THE WOMEN’S CONTROVERSY

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  95. 죄송한데 배경에 태극기 내리고 연아랑 소트니 사진으로 대체해주세요, 적들에게 빌미를 삼을 기회를 막기위해서요.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Anonymous @12:54 PM

    Thank you for your advice but I don't understand why I have to change the background image of my blog - Taegukki - all of a sudden. This is not just made inspired by the Sochi scandal and to top it off, this is not a figure skating blog. The image has been there since this blog was made in 2011. I don't see why I have to replace the existing image with Kim's and Sotnikova's either. (무슨 말씀이신 지는 알겠지만 제 블로그는 이번 일을 위해 특별히 만든 것도 아니고 피겨 블로그는 더욱 아닙니다. 2011년부터 사용해온 이미지를 왜 바꿔야 하는 지 모르겠습니다.)

    ReplyDelete
  97. 안녕하세요.전 연아팬이고 이 글이 너무 좋아서 트윗으로 공유했습니다.
    죄송한 말씀이지만 지우지 않으심이 어떨까요? 너무 글로 잘 정리해주셨거든요!

    ReplyDelete
  98. 정말 감사드려요.. 일주일전 악몽에서 아직 벗어나지도 못하고 나라는 연아선수를 모른채하고.. 사방에서 그 어린선수를 얼마나 시기하고 못살게 구는지.. 팬으로서 아무 도움도 못되는거 같아 마음이 찢어지는거 같았습니다. 포스팅 해주셔서 정말 감사드려요. 나뭇가지 한개는 약하고 부러질지언정 수만개의 나뭇가지는 절대 꺽지 못하죠.

    ReplyDelete
  99. I'm the person who commented about background image. Sorry for my careless behavior. I also didn't sleep well at night since this. Informing pride as korean and posting good articles on your blog, if I offended you, I'm really feeling sorry about my instant carelessness. (배경 언급했던 사람인데요, 경솔했던 점 죄송합니다.. 저도 연아사건때문에 일주일간 제대로 잠 못잔 팬이에요. 그 일주일 어떻게 흘러갔는지도 모르겠고.. 나름대로 한국인이란걸 알리면서 좋은 글들 게시하셨는데 제 찰나의 경솔함에 기분 상하게 했다면 정말정말 죄송합니다.. ;_;)

    ReplyDelete
  100. 위에 글 주신 모든 분들, 마음 다 이해합니다. 조금 전에 제가 "그곳"에서 말씀 드린대로요. 저는 이 글을 지우겠다는 뜻이 아니었고, 앞으로의 아젠다를 한글로 번역한 글을 여기서 내리고 그곳에 공지로 올리면 어떨까 하는 질문이었어요. 맞아요, 나뭇가지 한개는 약하고 부러질지언정 수만개의 나뭇가지는 절대 꺽지 못한다는 사실을 저들이 알게 되기를..... 화이팅!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  101. Thomas -

    I'm glad you're on our side. You have savvy ideas, and are very resourceful too.

    I didn't know you could message people on Change.org. Let us know if you hear back from Justice Seeker. (I might try sending him/her a message also).

    I think if we can get a hold of him/her, that would be a real boon. He/she has access to over 2 mill people's email addresses who are invested in this situation, like us.

    Also, if you guys think that Facebook is the best place to gather online, I'm all in. I don't mind re-joining FB, in order to join that group.

    I think we need to set up that FB group ASAP, don't you??

    Even a week after the competition has ended, I'm still seeing a fairly good number of people still making comments about this (Yuna being robbed of gold), underneath articles online, on the subject, and probably also on youtube.

    If we have a FB group set up right away, we could add comments on those webpages as well (to as many as we can find), and include the link to the FB group, so that everyone on there who is interested, could join it.

    I think we need to do this soon though, b/c as time goes on, there are less and less people going to those sites (and less are commenting). The longer we wait, the faster we'll lose our "targeted audience", if you know what I mean - b/c less of them are congregating at those sites over time.

    Onsemiro -

    I'm also glad you're on our side, b/c we need someone who is very knowledgeable about all the smaller details of figure skating (all the different jumps, under-rotations, the scoring, etc), as well as having info on the various competitions and their back stories (eg. you knew that at the last Euro. Championships, the scores were inflated for Adelina and Yulia there as well).

    We need that sort of detailed info for further ammunition for our case. (Esp. as most of the people protesting on behalf of Yuna are not really skating experts - at least not to that degree)

    I hope at some point soon, you'll also have time to write that post about why you think the S. Korean team didn't contest the results right after the competition ended. You said it was for political reasons, and I'm still curious as to know why...

    (Continued below)...

    ReplyDelete
  102. Andreas -

    Thanks for your input on this blog. Your posts have been insightful, and you had a couple good suggestions too.

    It's been especially interesting to get the perspective of a "third party" person, so to speak - as you clearly don't seem to be a Yuna fan per se (like most of us here), nor an Adelina fan either. (And you had already established yourself as a long-time Kostner fan :)

    I thought it was a good suggestion you had, that we need to enlist the help of our Korean comrades over in S. Korea, in terms of trying to contact the Korean judge (from the SP) to ask him questions and try to get some info from him, about the judging panel (and if it seemed suspect to him at all).

    Also, in general, I think we should try to mobilize a lot of people over there as well, so that they can call, harrass, and just make a lot of noise in general, toward the KSU and KOC - to try to get them to take some action.

    It's not that we can't do that here as well (most of us here are probably in the US and Canada), but probably most of what we would be doing here is just emailing the KSU and the KOC, and the like. (which is not *quite* as effective as calling, b/c emails can be more easily ignored).

    There is also the language barrier - many Korean-Americans (and presumably Korean-Canadians too) can't speak (or write) Korean very well. (Although some can)

    I think the pressure also needs to be more "local", at least in terms of the KSU and KCO... For example, if you get fellow Seoul (and other nearby places) citizens calling you, emailing you, and harassing you, it will be more of a pressure on them, than them getting lots of emails from abroad (from N. America, etc).

    So I think we should try to get a lot of Korean people living in S. Korea on board too, if we can.

    Also, you had written...

    "I believe that the delegation should at least have demanded that the organizers call the people to calm down. And then, South Korea didn't apply for misevaluation after the competition according to her rights.

    That seems a bit strange to me (or may be not...). "

    Why did you say "or maybe not..."?

    Also, just out of curiosity... from your own perspective, who do you think should've won gold, silver, and bronze?


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Susanne


      I love figure skating and I am a person who favors elegance over athlicity.

      When I watched Yuna Kim for the first time, my jaw droped. The fact that I sympathize Kostner does not mean that I ignore the fact that Yuna Kim was and still is the most accomplished skater of all.

      That said, in order to judge "who should have gotten the gold", I need two things: A clear venue and a knowledge of the rules.

      In a clear venue, I suppose that Yuna Kim whould have performed better - and had she been given the same performance, my vote subjectively (sic) would be for the more daring if immature Sotnikova. I expected more from Kim's last appearance. Since the venue in Iceberg wasn't clear under that dreadful crowd, I personally don't want to answer that question. If someone now, insists to be "objective", he must resort to the rules of evaluation, which I don't profess to know well: For instance, I hadn't until now a clue about the paradoxical "Elaine Zayak rule" - and when I read it, I understood how diverse can the feeling of a watcher be from the decision of a judge.

      What gets me closer to your cause, is not the conviction that Kim could not have come second. It is the few serious arguments I found in 2-3 comments and articles (this article included), along with the conviction that this 24 year old girl was disparaged by the crowd while still having to confirm the hopes of myriads. It is her grim of silent irony on hearing the applause after her Gala performance, the most noble handshake she gave to Sotnikova on the pedestal, her statements after her "defeat", which bore a maturity and natural nobility, not expected from a woman of her age.

      Kim seems to be a princess not only on the ice but in real life, too. The uttered protests and written complaints must somehow reflect her dignity. Do find some serious people (even judges) in the US, who know about figure skating and its rules and ask them their opinion. If they agree with you, they could even provide you with some internal information.

      As for your second question Susan, yes, I suspect that your skater was "traded in" by the official South Korea. The Olympic Games are never given gratis to one country, especially to an Asian country (China and Japan excepted) against Germany and France. Where do you think that those 63 votes out of 95 came from?

      That doesn't mean necessarily that the Games were fixed. But there is always a Silent Code, and things which are understood and accepted, even if not written. It has to do with the host of the Games, the importance which he gives to a result, the tradition of every country in a certain sport, geopolitics and alliances. It is sad that all that must pass over the bodies of young girls, but it's true.


      Wish you all the best.
      Andreas


      P.S.1: Onsemiro, I'd suggest that you start another campaign: Yuna is too young to give up skating right now! ;)

      P.S.2: Since you all live in the US, please do not forget the brilliant Gracie Gold, the small revelation of the Games. When the Sochi videos get posted, do have a look at her most lyrical I-spins...

      Delete
  103. Suzanne, true. according to the info Sue gave to us (https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3637137386309823336&postID=1030614299702400042), without an official complaint from KSU, it seems like we are all boxed in.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Okay, from what I've heard, the president of KSU is the son-in-law of Samsung's CEO/President (The company that makes electronics - like galaxy phone and galaxy tab(like ipad). So the president of KSU would likely to follow the interest of this big corp. Samsung - And Samsung is trying to expand the customer base in Russia, so they don't want to go against Russia. And ISU gets heavy load of sponsorships from Japan's corporations. So in a case like this, Yuna and KSU would be going against Russia AND Japan, who considers Yuna a threat(infamous rivalry between Yuna and Mao asada) - and KSU doesn't have the will nor enough money/power to make a difference (or in other words, sway ISU in Korea's favour). So basically, Yuna's not stupid, she probably knew she was being hammered, but she also knew that KSU couldn't do anything about it. The way Yuna handled it all, with dignity, knowing everything that was going on, and to put on a flawless performance, simply amazes me.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Anonymous @9:01 PM, yes, that's pretty much what I have heard, too. Btw, what's Kim Jaeyeol's job beside the president of KSU? Just Lee Kunhee's son in law?

    ReplyDelete
  106. oh, I heard Kim Jaeyeol wants to be involved in politics - Specifically though, he wants to be a member of IOC, which is ridiculously laughable. He has never done anything to help athletes who are competing in Olympics - Figure skaters don't even have proper ice rink - Hockey team, short track speed skating team, and figure skaters all share the same rink but it's actually a terrible environment because each sport requires different types of ice. KSU know about harsh environments of the facilities but they are not investing any money to upgrade the facilities. In fact, if athletes are successful in competitions, they charge so much tax on their prizes. So basically KSU rips money off from the athletes who are competing for the country. That's why Yuna suffered from many injuries - due to the bad environments. SO LAME!

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  107. Wow, Anonymous, that is some deep behind-the-scenes info right there. Thanks so much for sharing that!

    Can I ask where you got that info from?

    If that info is true - it just sickens me to the core, that all of these lame-ass, integrity-lacking people can "rig" and manipulate the outcome of a super-important global sports competition like the Olympics, just based on things like money and politics.

    THEIR money and THEIR politics, specifically... for THEIR own good.

    What about the young kids, the athletes, who BUST THEIR BUTTS, day in and day out, for years on end, to try to reach their Olympic dreams - and reach for that gold, etc? (like Yuna just tried, too)

    If they worked their butts off, and then pulled off an amazing performance (and was the best one at the competition), as Yuna had just done - they should then be able to receive their deserved gold medal - as is ONLY FAIR, and is only RIGHT in sportsmanship and fair competition.

    So what the hell?? The outcome of a super-important global competition like the Olympics, is based largely on POLITICS - and not mostly based on the athletic virtues and performance of the athletes themselves?? That's totally f**ed up.

    B/c of the f**ed up, moral-less actions of these guys, those young athletes lose out.

    How utterly pathetic and shameful - those guys should be totally ashamed of themselves.

    Ok, I'm done with my rant...

    Ok, so now what? It seems as though the KSU has to make an official complaint - otherwise, it seems nothing will move forward. Is that right?

    So should the focus right now be on pressuring KSU as much as we can?

    Can anyone think of some tactics to do that? What might motivate them? What could hurt them? Etc...

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  108. " So basically, Yuna's not stupid, she probably knew she was being hammered, but she also knew that KSU couldn't do anything about it. The way Yuna handled it all, with dignity, knowing everything that was going on, and to put on a flawless performance, simply amazes me. "

    You couldn't be more RIGHT about that.

    What an incredible person to go through all that, and STILL have the strength to put on a flawless performance, and STILL maintain her dignity all throughout. 98% of people wouldn't have been able to do that.

    She is a CHAMPION, both on and off the ice. CASE CLOSED.

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  109. I have been grumpy all day long since I didn't sleep well last night, and reading the most recent comments about how corrupted KSU is definitely doesn't help. It sickens me to my core...... :(

    Suzanne, Onsemiro has already posted a link to an existing FB group called "Adios Yuna". Its membership went up from 6 last night to 30 today, but it's still very small. Please help spread the word. I'm waiting for the admin of that group to approve my request to join right now. In any case, I absolutely agree with you that our first priority right now should be to expand the group as much as possible in order to maintain the momentum on this movement (if you can call it that).

    My "homework" for myself tonight is to go through all of the sponsors for the 2014 World Figure Skating Championships next month, find out their contact info, and send them a message letting them know of this scandal and my decision to boycott them because of their sponsorship of ISU. However, after going through all of the sponsors, I realize that it's somewhat pointless because almost of the sponsors are Japanese companies. Very disheartening. Still, there are some global ones such as Canon and Citizen, and I'm planning to send the message to their USA and Canada offices. But it's getting late so this will have to wait till tomorrow.

    Finally, a quick update on contacting Justice Seeker: no dice. I haven't heard anything from him/her. However, at least there's an update to the petition, including a link to Sonia Bianchetti's articles which I linked to in my comment yesterday, and a link to an open letter to the IOC Ethics Commission. I'm adding contacting the IOC Ethics Commission to my "homework" list for tomorrow.

    Today hasn't been a good day......

    ReplyDelete
  110. Onsemiro, I couldn't sleep so I'm awake in 4 40am and found another link - it's in Korean, my Korean friend found it and I got the link from her.

    http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=2097&query=view&p=2&my=&category=&sort=PID&orderby=&where=&name=&subject=&content=&keyword=&sterm=&iskin=heroes&mskin=&l=230382

    Thanks for all your effort!!

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  111. Hey, Suzanne and Thomas, I'm glad you two ARE on our side Thanks a zillion!

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  112. Anonymous @3:46 AM, wow... if it's true, the rigging had to bee viewed holistically. I'm speechless. Thanks for the link:http://www.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs.php?come_idx=2097&query=view&p=2&my=&category=&sort=PID&orderby=&where=&name=&subject=&content=&keyword=&sterm=&iskin=heroes&mskin=&l=230382 and I think I'll have to carve out some time to translate this post.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Hi everyone,

    Ok, first off, Thomas, thanks for letting me know about the FB page that's already been created for Yuna. I'll join it right away.

    The only thing though is - don't you think the name of the group isn't very good? ("Adios Yuna"). Why "Adios"? It sounds kind of negative, in my opinion... and also, it doesn't sum up what the group is trying to achieve.

    Can the name of the group be changed... or once it's named, is it permanent? I really think it needs to be changed (or if that's not possible, then possibly start a new group with a new name, and transfer the members over to there). If anyone knows about this, please let me know.

    I think a better name would be something like "Fairness for Yuna", or something to that effect. Something that sums it up well.

    Also, Thomas, I think that's a great idea to contact the sponsors for the 2014 World Figure Skating Championships (which is being held at the end of March), and let them know that, due to the scoring scandal/injustice from last week, we will be boycotting their products (as well as the World Championships show) - since they support and sponsor the ISU.

    You said you were gonna look up the contact info/email addresses for all of those sponsors (or at least the non-Japanese ones). Could you post that info on here after you do so? That way, all of us here can also contact them as well.

    There is obviously strength in numbers - so the more people who contact them, to let them know we're boycotting their products (and the show), the better!!

    Also, my hope is to still be able to get in touch with Justice Seeker, b/c as far as I can tell, he/she has access to those 2 mill+ email addresses of people who signed the petition... and why that's so important is that, from what I can tell, it seems that maybe he/she is able to send out mass emails to all of those people via Change.org (I say this b/c I got such an email from the owners of one or two of the petitions I signed on Change.org recently).

    If that works out, I think it'll be the easiest way for us to get a HUGE number of people on board with us all at once, and with directing them to join the FB group, and also to take part in our tactics (eg. contacting the KSU, contacting show sponsors and letting them know we're boycotting their products, etc, etc)

    I know that you haven't heard back from Justice Seeker yet... but I think there's still GOTTA be a way we can snag his/her attention.

    (Continued below)...

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  114. I will also try messaging him/her on Change.org today, as well. Also, on Thurs. nite, I had emailed the staff at Change.org to see if they could pass my message onto him/her, as I know Change.org obviously wouldn't give out his/her personal email address to me. I haven't heard back from them yet.

    Other than that, I could try signing the petition again, with my 2nd email address (one that I rarely ever use) - and under the "Comment" section when you sign the petition, I could include a brief message, as well as the link to both this blog post as well as the FB page - in the possible hopes that Justice Seeker might see it.

    It may or may not work, but it's worth a shot. At any rate, I don't want to give up on the idea of getting in touch with him/her.

    Another idea I had was to include the link to the FB page onto various online figure skating websites, blogs, and forums.

    There is still quite a lot of activity on those websites, even a week after the competition has ended, b/c there are a lot of die-hard figure skating fans on there, still dishing about this event, b/c this is their passion.

    This is a way we could "scoop up" more people, and get them to join the FB page/ our "movement", as Thomas called it. :) (the ones who are pro-Yuna, of course - of which it seemed a majority of them were)

    And the benefits of this is that 1) there seem to be a pretty good number of skating fans out there/ online, and 2) most of them are not Korean - which is good, b/c I agree with something Thomas had said earlier - that it would probably help if we got more non-Korean people on our side as well, b/c otherwise it's easy for the "opposition"/ pro-Adelina fans to dismiss our protests as just a bunch of overly nationalist Korean people being sore losers (when that is SOO not the case).

    If we got more non-Korean people on our side... figure skating fans of all ethnicities/nationalities, as well as, ideally, some "influentials" (like Katarina Witt, Kurt Browning, Jamie Sales, Dick Button, etc, etc), that would help us out a lot more.

    Btw, needless to say, just b/c I mention skating websites and forums doesn't mean that ALL the fans on there are Yuna fans and thought she would've won the gold. Obviously, there are always going to be some different opinions (and there were, from what I saw).

    That being said, from the couple of skating websites and forums I've read so far, the clear majority of people who commented on there, thought that Yuna should've won the gold - but that corrupt judging and politics prevented that from happening.

    I have more to add, but let me take a breather... :)

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  115. Changed the facebook group name to Golden Yuna - hope that's okay Suzanne

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  116. "Golden Yuna" surely suits the occasion, not to mention Yuna herself.

    Well, I'm not that big a fan of time-consuming Facebook but this time around, I think I have no other choice. When I open a Facebook, I'll join the group, too. Thanks again!!

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  117. Hi Anonymous,

    Thanks so much for chiming in and for changing the name of the FB group.

    So are you the owner of that group? (ie. the person who started it)

    I think that "Golden Yuna" is a better name than the previous one... but do you think it adequately sums up the purpose of the group? (the purpose being to try to get an investigation into the judging scandal that took place at the Olympics last week, and ultimately, to get Yuna her deserved, rightful gold medal)

    Do you think a name like "Fairness for Yuna" (or something similar to that) might be more appropriate, and more explanatory, than simply "Golden Yuna"?

    Don't get me wrong - "Golden Yuna" is a very nice name - but it sounds to me more like the name of a Yuna fan club, more than a protest group. It also doesn't sum up our mission in that one phrase.

    I'm not trying to impose my wishes on anyone - but simply trying to come up with the best name possible for the group.

    Perhaps others could chime in with their own thoughts as well?

    Thanks for listening.

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  118. Andreas, even though I want to see Kim compete as long as possible, I don't think I can even dare to start such kind of campaign. Yes, Yuna is too young to retire but her her health her and physical condition tell otherwise. As being a skater with integrity who never cheats, she's been suffering from so many injuries and one medical report said her feet are damaged as if they are 60 years old.

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  119. Hi Onsemiro,
    I noticed something from the petition "Apologize and give Yuna back the gold..."

    The edge problem on lutz jump persisted all throughout this season. I mean, for every competition she was in this season, she got an edge call on the lutz. If we are arguing that Adelina has a problem with wrong edge, we should give people more convincing data.

    This is from the petition;

    Adelina Sotnikova 2013-2014

    - She always got wrong edge on triple lutz this whole season up to European championships; suddenly she was never penalized for the wrong edge in Olympics. Was she able to fix it in a month or less? No, and clearly one judge saw the edge problem and gave her -1 GOE on Triple Lutz in the free program, but was probably eliminated as an outlier.

    - Her step sequence in free program has been consistently getting level 3, never 4, but suddenly she got level 4 in the Olympics. Was there any difference or significant improvement between the step sequence that she did in European Championships (she bombed all her free programs the whole season of 2013-2014 and this was her best one) and the one from Olympics? See for yourselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3haHNXUR3M

    - Adelina has been bluntly caught with under rotations throughout 2014 season up to European championships, but Adelina suddenly became invincible – even to non-expert bare eyes, I could see that triple toe jump in the combination was under-rotated.

    * Yuna’s second lutz in free program had proper entry, full rotations, everything intact, just a shaky landing – but she managed not to fall or land with two feet.

    - PCS scores; Looking at the whole season leading up the Olympics, not once was Adelina able to pull off a clean program, and when she , for the most part, held together her program at the Olympics, it seems natural that PCS would go up – I don’t deny that. But to go from 69 at European Championships to 74 at the Olympics with the same program is a LOT!



    1) ISU grand Prix Cup of china 174.70

    Sp: 66.03 TES 35.86 (Triple lutz Triple loop – under rotation so 11.10 to 8, LSp4, StSq4) PCS 30.17 (all 7’s)

    LP: 108.67 TES 50.36 (Edge call on Lutz, Lsp3, Stsq2) PCS 60.31 (all 7’s)

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn2013/gpchn2013_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn2013/gpchn2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf



    2) ISU Grand Prix Trophee Eric Bompard 189.81

    SP: 60.01 TES 29.24 (wrong edge on Lutz, Lsp3, Stsp3) PCS 30.77 (all 7’s)

    LP: 129.80 TES 65.15(Wrong Edge on Lutz, LSp3, StSq3) PCS 64.65 (3 8’s, 2 7’s)

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2013/gpfra2013_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2013/gpfra2013_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf



    3) Grand Prix Final 173.30

    Sp: 68.38 TES 37.53 (3T3T, LSp4, StSq4) PCS 30.85 (all 7’s)

    LP: 104.92 TES 46. 45 (Tried Triple Lutz and Triple Loop - Wrong Edge on Lutz, LSp3, StSq3) PCS 60.47 (all 7’s)

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/gpf1314_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1314/gpf1314_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf



    4) European Championships 202.36

    Sp: 70.73 TES 37.15 (3T3T, Lsp4, StSq3) PCS 33.58 (all 8’s)

    LP: 131.63 TES 62.03 (wrong edge on Lutz, triple loop under rotated, LSp3, StSq3) PCS 69.60 (all 8’s)

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/ec2014_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/ec2014_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

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  120. Anonymous @4:58 PM, thanks! I'll email your comment to the owner of the petition. :)

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  121. LOL I meant that I found the data on the petition and we should post the data here so we can be more convincing.

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  122. Oh my! I confess I didn't go through the information posted on that petition site. LOL I'll find a way to include that info in this post. Thanks.

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  123. Hi Onsemiro,

    I just noticed right now that in your conversation above with Anonymous, who had gotten some more detailed info on Adelina's scores from the Change.org petition called "Apologize to Yuna and give her back the gold" (...btw, I totally agree with the others who had commented before, that the title of that petition is a very poor choice of words, and it wouldn't be taken seriously by anyone, such as the ISU, etc)...

    Anyway, in reponse to her, you had written - "Anonymous @4:58 PM, thanks! I'll email your comment to the owner of the petition. :)"

    I was wondering - how were you planning to do that? Do you know of a way to contact an owner of a petition on Change.org?

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  124. Watch Yuna Kim's short program closely. In the last 30 seconds of her Short Program at Sochi a man in a dark suit, dark tie, and white shirt is standing behind the ice rink border. You will be able to see him within the first minute of Yuna's short program standing behind a man in a colorful Olympic Sochi jacket. The man in the dark suit appears to me to have been strategically placed to stand behind the ice rink border where Yuna skates by in the last 30 second of her routine as she prepares to position herself for her final spin sequence. In the 30 seconds the man waits for Yuna skate by him where she is facing him during which this man waves to Yuna and makes a hand devil sign in an apparent attempt to disrupt Yuna's concentration in the final 30 seconds of her short program in which she has to complete her final spin sequence. The man clearly had no purpose standing behind the ice rink border where Olympic workers, skaters, and coaches have a reason to be standing. The man in the dark suit and dark tie looked defeated when he failed to sabotage Yuna's short program routine in the final 30 seconds.

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  125. MaryGrace, I too saw a man first wave at Yuna and then give the sign of the horns. Kim Yuna Olympic SP French Commentary(It starts around 03:20)

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  126. Hi Andreas,

    Thanks for your interesting reply.

    You had said, "As for your second question Susan, yes, I suspect that your skater was "traded in" by the official South Korea. The Olympic Games are never given gratis to one country, especially to an Asian country (China and Japan excepted) against Germany and France. Where do you think that those 63 votes out of 95 came from?"

    I was wondering if you could explain a bit more about that, especially your last two sentences.

    Prior to this Olympics, I wasn't fully aware of all the behind-the scenes politics, and sleazy and unfair maneuvering by nations, with regards to the scores and outcomes at these games. I think that probably MOST Americans (and most people all over the world, in general) are just as clueless about this, as I was back then... which is unfortunate, b/c then most people are left pretty much ignorant as to what's *REALLY* going on.

    Then the cheating guys (like the Russians, in this case) don't get called out for what they did - and they don't pay the price... and at the same time, the recipients of medals who did not actually EARN those medals (such as, in this case, Adelina with her "fake" gold) get treated as if their performance really WAS gold-worthy, and that they ARE the most superior athelete of the bunch (when they are, in reality, NOT).

    But, b/c of this incident with the ladies figure skating last week in Sochi (the scoring controversy/injustice), I have since dug into this topic a lot more - and I've come to realize that politics, esp. between the nations, plays a much larger role behind the scenes than I had realized (incl. with the scoring, and who gets which medals, etc) - and it's just shameful and sickening.

    As you said, "It is sad that all that must pass over the bodies of young girls, but it's true."

    Anyway, I am guessing that you are European? I ask b/c I was curious to know how popular Yuna is in your country, and in Europe in general. (Eg. do most people know who she is over there?). Also, how do people in your country view her, as well as Europe in general?

    I know how popular she is, and how she's generally viewed, here in the US, and Canada, as well as in S. Korea (and its neighboring Asian countries)... but I'm not quite as familiar with how popular she is in Europe, and how she is viewed over there...

    Thanks... and by the way, feel free to drop in here anytime to add to the conversation. (Also, if you have any interest, feel free to join our Facebook group - it's called Golden Yuna)

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    Replies
    1. Hi Suzanne

      It seems to me that you are quite young and you have not exprienced the cold war and post cold war Olympics (when the doping of the athletes begun). The Games were always connected with politics, even before WW2. There was a pause of course during at the end of 20th century and the begining of the 21st, when the various machinations where purely economical and sometimes with a "good" political cause (like the Soccer Championship in South Africa), but it seems that nationalism returns now with a vengeance.

      The actual difference of the older Games to what's happening now, is that even during the wildest West-East antagonism, the audiences respected the athletes. The cultured treatment of the opponent was a taboo, at least equal with the gold medal - contrary to what happened in Sochi and may be repeated in Korea four years later. This is the reason why I choose a stance which may dissapoint you a bit.


      I don't have internal information, but it is obvious that South Korea made some alliances in order to win those 2018 games. Alliances are made with influental countries which have tradition in the Games, as well as money. Russia is without doubt one of them. There are bribes, there are promises, you give, you take. A small bourse.

      That means that if Russia was giving any importance to a specific game, like figure skating, being the host and being one of the protagonists in figure skating all these years, the judges would be more lenient to her skaters. After the European championship, it was obvious that she did give importance, since all the people were questioning whether the gold in Russia (sic) would be obtained by Yulia or Kim. Nationalistic reputation and concern was back again, given also that Russia is somehow involved in the North and South Korea conflict, as well as the fact that Korea was the center of one of the most bloody wars of the "cold war" period.

      Such phaenomena are not new. In the USA Summer Olympics of 1984, when the Soviets boycotted the Games, the best female gymnasts were the Romanians. Romania was under the dictatorship of Chausesku, a communist who happened to oppose Soviet Union, and didn't boycot the Olympics. A young American, called Mary Lou Retton had to oppose the two Romanian gymnasts, Simona Pauka and Ekaterina Szabo who seemed to be without competition after the Eastern Block boycot. At the end, Retton came first, receiving perfect tens by the judges, even by landing with bent knees and a half jump, which should cause deductions. Have a look at the following video, and above all, the comments below. Thirty years after Ronald Reagan's USA Olympic Games, Retton's gold is still discussed...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5kpy-eb_es

      You may be surprised with all that, but to me they are obvious: Before the Sochi Games, a 24 year old girl like Yuna and a 16 year old girl like Yulia, had become without being asked and against their wishes, weapons of state and international propaganda. Even the fact that Yulia was given a "Schindler's list" program to perform is not totally void of political expediency for many reasons. (That's not conspiracy theories, it's just "communication").

      That the judges would be more favourite to a Russian skater under these conditions was to be expected and up to a point "natural". The question is to what extend and how. To favour a young and promising athlete who comes from the hosting country, is one thing. To totally upturn the results is another, major thing, which cannot be accepted. But exactly because it is major and unacceptable, it needs to be proved.

      A.

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    2. What would I do except finding the Korean judge:

      * I'd try to find the Sochi videos (personally I admitt that I watched only the free program after midnight, in repetition, and missed the short which was projected while I was at work).

      * I'd try to find a licensed American judge, who knows the new ISU rules and ask him, beg him, seduce him to watch those videos with me, and tell me under anonymity, whether there was any obvious (sic) underevaluation of Kim or inflation of Sotnikova. If there is something obvious in that same contest and not a past one, I'd made that, my first argument. If there are more, even better.

      * I would try to conduct some people of status, fame or some importance (like the Italian blogger) with those arguments of mine, I'd try to conduct with other people on the same lines, asking for "transparency" and not for "justice". 50 people with a name and surname of some importance count for a million of signatures coming from angry fans.

      That said, with Russia entering in a conflict in Ukraine and at the beggining of a new, extremely misfortunate cold war, my expectations would not be so high. Every little detail counts now for the big screen. And if it happens that you see suddenly, the US press (or papers and media around the world) remembering Sotnikova's "fake gold in Sochi", you may be sure that these article will not be coming from figure skating fans but from State Departments and Foreign Offices around the world.

      In my opinion, Sotnikova's gold will be judged in the future, not after enquiries (which I do not oppose in any way) but in connection with her own progress. I forsee that the main protagonists in Korea at 2018 will be Lipnitskaya and Gracie Gold - the "athletic" and the "elegant" camp - except if the Koreans repeat and surpass the Sochi shame. If Sotnikova makes a surprise, if she manages to repeat the score she received in Sochi, or just stay a gold or silver medalist the next ten years, the Sochi controversy will pale, and even she may some day admit that she was blatantly favoured at the Sochi Olympics. If she doesn't, she will pay the price of her rejoice, which she didn't creat, manage, orchestrate or impose.

      A.

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    3. I am Greek and living in Athens.

      We have no tradition in figure skating and it doesn't snow very much in Greece any more. The people who watch figure skating on the tv are few but dedicated. Our tv sportcaster, always speaks positively for all the girls without discrimination and wishes the best to every one. His admiration though, has been going for Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner and Gracie Gold, and he treated Yulia Lipnitskaya with a father-like kindness.

      There is a blog of "figure skating fans in Greece" held by a girl. I do not know her. Our opinions coincede in some areas. She admits that she is always pro-Russian (she doesn't very much admire Kostner but she liked Gracie Gold), she believes that a revision may prove Sotnikova's gold due to the difficulty of her program, but she accepts that the difference of 5 points is a scandal which much be reviewd 2-3 times, and she also supports the two petitions although she isn't sure that "Kim's gold was stolen". She supports the notion that the anonymity of the judges must end, on the grounds that they are able to "push a skater and destroy another" and that "the only thing that may make them play the game, is the fear that their ridicule will be reviewed".

      The article is big and interesting, with some interesting questions (why the petition and most complains come from Canada which has not one competitive female skater, and not from Korea herself, why the Canadians demand anonymity for the judges but they don't remember how Plushenko was robbed in Vancouver, why was Lakernik left to be ahead of technical evaluation, why the Ukrainian judge had not been expelled from ISU for corruption, etc).

      You could say that there are supporters of Yuna, even in the pro-Russian camp!

      http://figureskatinghellas.wordpress.com/


      All the best to you, Onsemiro and Thomas
      Andreas Makrides

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  127. I have some more ideas, as to more tactics we can try, and more thoughts in general. Here is one of them...

    It seems that probably our biggest "obstacle" right now is getting the KSU to file an official complaint.

    That would seem to make sense b/c, without an official complaint (from a "plaintiff", if you will - in this case, the KSU), why would the ISU (the "defendant") take any action? (in this case, to start an investigation into the case).

    Also, an official complaint would seem probably necessary if we want to try to involve "higher" authorities to act on this case as well - eg. the IOC Ethics Committee, and/or the Court of Arbitration of Sport, etc.

    So what seems to be the obstacle to the KSU filing a complaint?

    According to a few of the people who posted on here (and I'm assuming you guys got your info from a reputable source, right?)... it seems that the situation is that the Pres. of the KSU happens to be the son-in-law of the CEO of Samsung, and as such, any decisions he makes would be in the interest of Samsung... and right now, Samsung is trying to expand their customer base in Russia, so they don't want to go against Russia (offend them or what not).

    So it seems THAT is probably the reason (political/money-driven) why the KSU didn't file a complaint - which, when we first found out they didn't, was shocking to a lot of people. (But now we know why!)

    (Continued below...)

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  128. To be honest, when I first heard their reason why, I thought - is that really a big enough reason? I say this b/c 1) first of all, not everyone knows that Samsung is a Korean brand. Yes, probably a majority or people do know - but I also think a sizeable minority (perhaps as many as 35 - 38% of people... a very rough estimate, of course) aren't aware of this. So my guess would be that a fair percentage of Russians wouldn't even know they were buying a Korean brand.

    And 2) even if some of them were aware of it, so what? Would they be SO angry towards Koreans (b/c an Olympic investigation had taken place, and later Yuna was also awarded a gold medal, along with Adelina), that it would be enough for them to deliberately go out of their way to avoid buying a Korean-made phone (or other electronics)? I don't know if most of them would be so angry enough to do that.

    In addition, in modern societies, when people buy phones (and other electronics), they usually make their choice by how cool/modern/desirable the phone is, more so than any other reason. Samsung is in the top tier of phones in that regard (with their state-of-the-art Galaxy phones), and would tempt most savvy electronics buyers that way - Russians included.

    Also, the incredible success of Viktor Ahn (formerly Ahn Hyun-Soo of S. Korea) in short track at these past Olympics, as a South Korean superstar athlete playing for *THEIR* Russian team (winning them not ONLY their first medal in short track, in Olympic history - but also *dominating* those events as well, winning 4 gold medals and 1 bronze!), has made him a beloved HERO and superstar in Russia. So right now, b/c of that too, any possible "anti-Korean" feelings in Russia would seem to be very low. (...other than, of course, some Russians mad about all of the angry, and sometimes crass, protests from angry Korean fans regarding Yuna's unfair loss - like on Adelina's FB page, etc)

    However, yes, I do understand that they (Samsung) probably want to play it safe, and yes, I do acknowledge that it's possible there might be some angry Russians if Yuna were also awarded a gold - and that it *may* affect some of their buying decisions when it comes to Korean electronic brands (?)... (but to a significant percentage of sales?...)

    The question is - is that still more important to them (KSU/Samsung) than justice being served to Yuna, as well as to all of their fellow Korean men and women in S. Korea, and all over the world? Are they gonna cop out, or can they do the right thing?

    It also comes down to - does the KSU and Samsung really want to put Yuna - not only the deserved gold medal winner at this competition - but also the CROWN JEWEL of S. Korea, and of Korean people all over the world - the person whom Korean people are most proud of to represent their country, to the entire WORLD - and their "native daughter"... do they really want to put her under the bus, simply for the reason to not offend Russia, so that they can reduce the *possibility* of some Russians not buying their electronics? As I mentioned above, I don't even know if those reasons even hold up - at least not that significantly.

    And this is not just about Yuna... by not filing a complaint and pursuing this matter, and just staying silent due to some sort of fear/reverance of a Russian customer base, they are also doing a major disservice, and being shamefully disloyal, to THEIR OWN PEOPLE... to their fellow Korean countrymen and women... all 50 mill of them in S. Korea, as well as to the tens of millions of Koreans living all over the world (US, Canada, Australia, etc)... b/c when Yuna lost her rightful gold medal that nite (and in such a sickening fashion to boot), ALL Korean people all over the WORLD, were incensed, sickened, and saddened by it. And they demanded a change/investigation take place.

    The KSU - of ALL people - should've been the LAST ones to try to avoid that from happening!

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  129. Suzanne,

    Yes, you're right on the money that "It seems that probably our biggest "obstacle" right now is getting the KSU to file an official complaint." And it's also true it basically has to do with Samsung and its expansion into Russia. But on top of that, rumor has it that the president of KSU wants to be elected as a member of IOC representing S. Korea, in which is he needs a boost from Russia. Yet, pressing KSU should be our first priority.

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  130. Ok, so now you're saying - so what's your point? What are your ideas?

    As said, it seems that one of the very first things we need to do, is to get the KSU to file the complaint.

    I had read on a skating website/forum yesterday, from a commenter, that the KSU actually has 60 days in which to file a complaint. (and not just the 30 minutes I had heard earlier)

    Now obviously, being that this was written by a commenter, I don't know how truly accurate it is. (Maybe someone here would have a better idea?)

    I mention this b/c, obviously, if it were true, that would be wonderful! - b/c then that means we still haven't missed the deadline, and also, that we have time to get on KSU's backs during this time, in order to try to pressure them to make the complaint.

    I had two suggestions/thoughts on this...

    1) we can contact Samsung and let them know we are boycotting their products, due to the scoring injustice/controversy at the ladies figure skating competition last week, and with Yuna being robbed of her gold - and due to KSU's inexcusable decision not to ACT after that fiasco, and to not file a complaint. (and b/c of KSU's ties to Samsung, and the probable reason why they didn't file the complaint)

    We can let them know that, while they (Samsung/KSU) are focusing on increasing their Russian customer base right now, they will simultaneously be *LOSING* their customer base in the US and Canada, due to this (the US/ N. America being a HUGE marketplace for them... maybe even their LARGEST customer base in the world?), as well as in their own country of S. Korea (which is a smaller country in comparison to N. America, but which is not only their home turf, but is also one of the most wired countries/electronically equipped countries in the world).

    But in order for this to work/ have a lot of impact, we need to have a LOT more people on our side, contacting them with this message (incl. a lot of people in S. Korea as well).

    Right now, our organized numbers are still pretty low. So our focus also has to be on building up our numbers/ membership as QUICKLY as possible!!

    (Continued below...)

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  131. 2) Coincedentally, right now, Russia in involved with that whole very turbulent situation with Ukraine, and taking over Crimea after the Ukrainian Pres. fled last week. This is the top news story all over the world right now.

    Here in the US, Pres. Obama and America is extremely opposed to Putin and Russia right now, b/c they disobeyed Pres. Obama's warnings, as well as all of the international laws - and went into Ukraine in order to seize parts of it, rather than leave Ukraine alone, with its own sovereignty and territorial borders. The media is now saying that it's even possible that they (Russia and Ukraine) might be at the brink of war (and if so, of course, the US and other countries would also be involved and intervene as well).

    On "Meet the Press" this morning, US Secretary of State, John Kerry, said that, if this continues and Putin doesn't back down, and continues on with his own, pig-headed, power-hungry course - and despite warnings and protests from all the other countries in the UN, and NATO - that it will only be bad for Russia, in the end... b/c then Russia would be isolated (as all the other countries will no longer be in any alliance with it), and it would also reduce their economy (as distributors from other countries would pull back from selling to it).

    He said "It will be bad for Putin, it will be bad for Russia, it will be bad for the Russians, it will be bad for their economy, and it will remove all glow that Putin had from the Sochi Olympics."

    Why am I mentioning this? B/c it seems that, due to this current, turbulent political situation with Russia and Ukraine (and if it continues on this way for a while), that the lure of expanding a customer base in Russia might not be as significant to outside countries as it was prior to this happening... esp. if Russia becomes more "isolated" from other countries as a result of this, and generally disliked by these other countries, and Russia's international economic ties are also severed.

    I don't know exactly what will come of all this (esp. politically and economically), but it seems *possible* that Russia's customer base might become less significant to Samsung, as a result of this situation (esp. if it continues).

    Any thoughts on any of this?

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  132. Correction:

    I wrote in my earlier post that Viktor Ahn had won 4 gold medals and 1 bronze in short track for the Russian team this past Olympics... I meant to say, he won THREE gold medals (not 4) and 1 bronze.... (Still, that's an incredible haul he gave those Russians!!)

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  133. Suzanne,

    Yes, one of the most powerful tools for change is the boycott but the questions are: "who's going to organize it and how many will join it for how long?" As Thomas mentioned above, "the only leverage we have is numbers" but KSU must file an official complaint in time. And in order for there to be solidarity within millions of figure skating fans all over the worlds, there should be some sort of "focal point," if you will.

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  134. Onsemiro,

    Do you have any suggestions/ideas for what you wrote above?

    Do you have any ideas on how we can get a lot more people on board? (possibly even millions... that would be the goal)

    And also for getting some sort of "focal point"? (Do you mean like an online gathering place focal point, like the Golden Yuna FB page?)

    These are 2 ideas I had recently for trying to amass a HUGE number of people quickly (possibly even in the millions)... However I'm not totally sure how feasible each of these two ideas are (ie. if there might be a possible monkey wrench to either plan)...

    1) As mentioned in my previous posts, I would still like to pursue getting in touch with Justice Seeker, the owner of that Change.org petition, which has now gathered over 2,025,000 signatures.

    I say this b/c, as far as I can tell, he/she has access to all of those people's email addresses, in that, he/she can send out a mass email to all of them.

    If this is in fact true/ do-able, that means he/she could send out a mass email to all 2 mill+ people, letting them know of our FB page (online gathering place), and that we are setting up tactics in order to try to get an investigation under way (eg. by putting pressure on the KSU to file a complaint, contacting certain companies to tell them we're boycotting their productcs, etc) - and that we need all of their help to do so!

    2) My other idea was to post a message, and link to our Golden Yuna FB page, onto Yuna's FB page itself, in order to try to recruit as many people there, to help us in our pursuit to get Yuna her rightful gold medal.

    The good thing about that plan is that 1) all members there are already big Yuna fans, and most would probably want to help, and 2) she has almost 2 mill followers on her page.

    However, is it allowed to do that one someone's FB page? (to include a link to another FB page, with a message to try to recruit people). Also, I don't even know if Yuna would necessarily *like* to see that sort of message on there... she herself doesn't seem to be trying to pursue any investigation (probably for good reason - she probably doesn't want to ruffle any feathers, with the KSU, etc. Also, she seems like a very humble girl), and I don't know how she'd feel knowing about a large group of people trying to pursue it for her. (She might even prefer not to know about it? If you know what I mean...)

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  135. Suzanne, I personally prefer the first option as I don't want Yuna to be involved in one way or another. I'll try to send your message to Justice Seeker using the tip Thomas gave to us the other day. And there's a Korean online community called "Sochi Scandal" and I was debating whether to join the group but will definitely do it and think about a way to connect the Korean-speaking community with the English-speaking community.

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  136. Onsemiro,

    Yeah, I totally get your point about not involving Yuna in it one way or another. So I guess we'll put aside the Yuna FB page idea...

    That is a great idea to try to connect with Korean communities, with the English speaking communities, in order to increase our numbers... and the more of them, the better.

    (And they needn't just be Korean groups that are Yuna/Sochi related, but even just Korean groups of all types... eg. church groups, youth groups, Korean-American association groups, etc. B/c pretty much ALL Korean people watched the Olympics that nite (or on video) and are angry with what happened, and want fairness in that situation and a change)

    Can you think of how we can reach as many Korean groups/ people as possible?

    Also, I was thinking about writing comments on some figure skating websites/forums that I saw recently, with a brief message (possibly even mentioning our goal in mind?), and the link to the Golden Yuna FB page, and also this blog page (if you think it's a good idea, that is)...

    However, I hesitate slightly b/c I first wanted to ask you in the group, if you thought that was a good idea/ safe idea. I say this b/c not everyone on those forums are pro-Yuna (though many of them are)... there are obviously some differing opinions on there, and a minority are even pro-Adelina.

    Would it seem ok/ safe to let all of them know about our group (incl. some people who are possibly in the "opposition", if you know what I mean), and what we're trying to accomplish right now? (with possible access to our discussions and our "tactics")

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  137. Suzanne, I don't think it would hurt. If there's any opportunity to gather power to push for changes, then we gotta seize it. Btw, I just opened a Facebook account and am now waiting for an approval to join the group and also sent a message to Justice Seeker. But I failed to join the Korean community because my account was put in the "hibernation" status and couldn't remember whether I used my Korean or English name when I opened that account.

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  138. Just thought I'd shared a link
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK4jP-wl2BI&feature=youtu.be

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  139. Hey, Anonymous, thanks for the link. (http://youtu.be/kK4jP-wl2BI) Actually, the video was already added to this post! ;)

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  140. Suzanne and Onsemiro, I'm so glad you two are working so hard on this! If only there were 1,000,000 more of you! Thank you!

    On my side, I have abandoned my "homework" from Friday. Instead, inspired by Andreas's comment that "a serious petition requires seriousness, knowledge of the judging system and solid arguments", I spent all of my free time over the weekend to understand the ISU scoring system and comb through the score sheets of some recent ISU competitions. The result is a document I titled "A (Mostly) Objective and (Somewhat) Mathematical Analysis of Why Yuna Kim Should Have Won the Gold Medal". None of the arguments in the document is new though. I just took a different angle on the arguments we already have and try to put some numbers on them. What's more important is what's NOT in the document. Without going into whose jumps were higher, or how many triple jumps were in each program, I am able to demonstrate that:

    1. Had the mistakes committed by Adelina in her free skate been properly accounted for, her margin of victory over Yuna would have been 1.38 instead of 5.48.

    2. A margin of 1.38 could easily have been manipulated by as few as two people. For example:

    o Two people on the Technical Panel could have misidentified, intentionally or unintentionally, the level of difficulty of certain elements, mistakes committed, etc.

    o Two Judges simultaneously inflating one skater’s score while deflating the score of another could have an impact in the range of 1.20 to 1.50 on the PCS.

    3. Adelina has experienced explosive, unparalleled growth between Nov 2013 and Feb 2014, in both her artistic mastery of her routine AND her ability to execute perfect technical elements including jumps.

    4. The selection of the competition officials is questionable with undeniable potential for conflict of interest.

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  141. Onsemiro, I'll send the document to you via email. Could you convert it into a post on your blog please? It'll be easier for people to read. We can then send a link to the media outlets in hope of reigniting interest in the scandal. ("Look, someone with way too much time on his hands actually wrote a thesis on this!")

    If you want a sleek peak, here's the link to the document.

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  142. I agree that we need to pressure KSU, and we can reuse the same tactics we have outlined for ISU. However, for our actions to have a real impact, we need numbers. Samsung isn't going to care if 10, 20, 50, or even 100 people boycott their products. (Nor is Sumitomo Life going to care that someone living in the US vows never to buy a policy from them.) To this end, I agree that we should take whatever actions we can to increase awareness, even if it means advertising on some figure skating forums which are not entirely pro-Yuna. And we need people who are willing to do more than just sign an online petition. We need people who will actually boycott the sponsors, nag the authorities, etc.

    By the way, I want to share a tiny victory with you today. I stumbled upon http://yunakimfan.com today and saw a link to Onsemiro's "Next Actions" blog post. :)

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  143. Andreas, I am impressed by Gracie Gold's performances as well. Too bad it's completely overshadowed by this controversy.

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  144. Thomas, you bet. I'll post your research asap. Btw, I'm beginning to wonder.... what do you do for living? haha... And yes, I noticed some traffic coming from that site lately. :)

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  145. Does anyone know how the Korean public is looking at this? Are there any people gathering to take action like we do? I find it unsettling that KSU isn't even pretending to make a big fuss about this, even if there is something fishy going on behind the scenes. I would have expected that KSU is at least getting some pressure from the Korean public, to the point where they have to maintain an appearance that they are trying.

    After I have dissected the score sheets every which way, I realize that Kim Yuna really didn't stand a chance at all. I didn't want to put it in the document since I was trying to be as objective as possible, but it's highly likely that two judges were involved in the scam in the short program. And the questionable Ukrainian judge and the Russian judge weren't even judging the short program. The PCS's and the GOE's also strongly suggest that at least four judges were involved in the scam in the free skate. To top it all off, we have the Vice President of the Russian Skating Federation running the Technical Panel. You have got to hand it to Kim Yuna. "They" (ISU, Russia, or whoever you think is behind all this) had to pull out all the stops to deny her a gold medal.

    Even if she didn't realize the odds stacked against her before the competition, it should have been obvious by the time the short program was over. But still, she put on another performance of the ages in the free skate. Gotta admire that.

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  146. Thomas, Koreans are very easily swayed by the media - If media focuses on something, then people will go at it like hyenas, so to speak LOL. And if the media ignores, people will be ignorant. Having said that, the Korean media is very disappointing. I think it may actually be pressured by Sam Sung or something. There's a huge search engine like Google in Korea, called Naver - although the articles about the new petition finally started to appear (and it took them such a long time to even acknowledge the new petition), Naver wouldn't display those articles in their main sports section, meaning those articles won't be seen as much. And you know what the more frustrating thing is? In the article they did display in main sports section in response to the news of the new petition, they only talk about the 1st petition, saying a Canadian started to revive the petition or something. There are still people who saw the articles about the new petition and visit the petition page. I bet it's because in the new petition, it talks about KSU and its incompetence - uh, sounds fishy enough? - Who's the president of KSU again?

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  147. Thomas, here a link to your meaningful analysis of the Sochi rigging: Sochi Figure Skating Scandal: (Mostly) Objective and (Somewhat) Mathematical Analysis of Why Kim Yuna Should Have Won the Gold Medal
    ========================
    Anonymous @ 7:39 AM, we are living in the world where people have been and are still being brainwashed by media. You don't need to go too far. In the US, as I have mentioned in this post, your friends and fellows who are not skating fans or have no knowledge about the sport will just repeat wrong information they have heard in the media (such as NBC or NYT): "I liked Yuna but Adelina was technically superior." So your comment is half right and half wrong. And those who go crazy and wild like hyenas are not Yuna fans - not to mention figure skating fans - but most of them are just losers venting their personal frustrations, not necessarily related to the Sochi outcome for example, online. And FYI, Kim Jaeyeol is the president of KSU.

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  148. Sorry for coming on so strong on my post at 7:39am. I was actually kind of upset about what my Korean friend told me. She was folling up with what was happening after the Olympics, and two days after the Olympics, articles about Yuna were completely gone. And during the couple days after they took down the articles, people started forgetting about the issue. Then a new petition started, and my friend knew about the petition, and she was actually checking the Korean media response and see if KSU will respond - and Korean journalists finally noticed that there was another petition launched - and yesterday, articles started to come out. So my friend thought this matter will finally see the light. But what ended up happening was, the articles about the new petition didn't make it to the main sports section - instead, an article saying a Canadian is rekindling this issue and he/she referred back to the first petition that was launched, made it to the main Sports page. This was confusing everybody - even the journalists were confusing the two petitions - and people were getting the wrong ideas that they were supposed to go back to the old petition - but people already signed up there for god's sakes!! The new petition should get the spotlight because it's the one that started after the Olympics - and it shows people are not letting go of this issue. But I guess whoever launched this petition dug a little too deep - I mean I saw the mention of Korean Skating Union and the vice president Ji Hee Lee - probably why someone (almighty and powerful) wants people's attention away from the second petition. You know, I'm just so frustrated with this whole thing - that people who are supposed to actually take action (KSU!) are just ignoring our voices... But anyway, sorry about the rude tone towards Koreans - didn't mean to offend anybody.

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  149. Wow, Thomas, what an incredible job you did on that detailed scoring analysis! Thank you for that! That only helps us further in our argument!

    I appreciate all the hard work (and excellent thinking ability!) you've put into this as well. (Btw, do you by chance work in either math or science? :)

    Also, thanks again to Onsemiro (I am grateful that you started this blog page - and that I stumbled across it) - as well as to all the commenters who've added some very helpful and informative info on here.

    Also, while I'm at it - thanks to Jillian Michaels for starting up the Golden Yuna FB page, for our online gathering place. (Btw, Jillian, I think the name you chose, "Golden Yuna", is a very good choice, esp. after seeing the group)

    Now, before I forget, I wanted to write some thoughts I had, after reading some of the most recent comments on here...

    Thomas, I think it's a great idea to forward your detailed analysis to media outlets, to try to re-ignite interest in this scandal (along with some other persuasive materials we might have, such as the videos, etc). I think that getting the media involved would help out our mission *exponentially*, needless to say.

    However, I think we should probably wait to contact them until we have more of an established "movement", if you will... b/c you know how the media is...although our detailed analyses and videos pretty much prove the scoring was rigged, and that Yuna should've won the gold (and that alone should be worthy of being broadcast!)... what the media seems most interested in, is having a "STORY" - particularly a "juicy", "exciting" story that will draw audiences and boost their ratings.

    So, along with sending them our detailed analyses, etc, I think it would help a lot more if we had something more "newsworthy" (according to their "standards", that is), to share along with it.

    For example, if they found out that our movement has been growing, even after the Olympics had ended, and is now in the millions (with people all over the world), and that this controversy has not died, but it still alive and kicking, I think that might satisfy their need for a "juicy" story, and they would be a lot more likely to air it or print it.

    Or, if we had, besides a lot of people in our movement, some "influentials" also involved on our side (eg. Katarina Witt, Kurt Browning, or Dick Button, etc), that would stir their interest a lot more too.

    Or if we were able to dig up some more dirt on the judges (that was more incriminating, other than just rumors or inferences), again that would more likely get them to promote the story. (Of course, this last one would probably be quite difficult to acquire - but it's just an example)

    What do you all think?

    At any rate, at some point (probably when we're more "ready"), I definitely think we should try to get the media on this as well, as that would probably help our mission tremendously.

    Also, I'm glad you mentioned the link to the YunaKimfan.com website. I didn't even think about Yuna fan websites and forums (and I'm sure there are a fair number of them out there)... that's another venue (besides figure skating websites/forums) for us to try to "recruit" as many people as we can... we can post comments on there, briefly explaining our mission, and include the link to the Golden Yuna FB page and this blog page, for people to join.

    I will post comments on some figure skating websites/forums today, and also on the YunaKimfan website (and I'll look for other Yuna fan websites online as well).

    Also, Onsemiro, you had mentioned yesterday, a Korean online group called "Sochi Scandal" - but you said you couldn't get in b/c you forgot your username.

    Do you think it would be possible for you to still get into that group (even if you have to re-join as a new member), in order to try to get more "recruits" from there as well?



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  150. Folks, Kim Jaeyul, KSU president is also a CEO of Samsung Engineering, Co. Ltd. which suffered a huge loss financially last year. Considering the competitive nature within the Samsung family, he probably is the last person who want to see KSU get caught with volatile issue like this. Also, he is from family of Dong-A Ilbo, a major right wing newspaper in South Korea. So he has the power and access to mass media. Not to mention a fact that JoongAng Ilbo, another right wing major newspaper is a distant affiliate company with Samsung. Chosun Ilbo, yet another major right wing newspaper in S. Korea is sporadically covering this issue, but it seems their motivation is to raise more advertising revenue from Samsung. All three newspapers combined has more influence in S. Korea than, let's say, NYT, WSJ and LAT combined in the USA. There is another layer to consider but I don't want to go into that direction as it is a highly speculative.

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  151. ***The judges***

    Ok, now I wanted to write what I know about the judges (a sort of summary/re-cap), just so we all know and are on the same page.

    Now if this info isn't enough to raise some very serious doubts about the legitimacy of the scoring that night, and to initiate an investigation into this, I don't know WHAT is...

    From what I understand, there were 9 judges on the panel (for the FS), and 3 judges on the technical panel. (So I guess you could say 12 judges in total?)

    The focus so far (in the media, and in most online forums) has mainly been on only TWO of those judges seeming suspect.

    And those 2 judges are - 1) the Russian judge, Alla S., who is married to the Pres. of the Russian Skating Federation (and who was caught embracing Adelina right after the competition!!), and 2) the Ukrainian judge, Yuri B., who was caught trying to rig scores at the '98 Nagano Winter Olympics - he was caught "trading" scoring favors with the French judge, and of telling the Canadian judge the order in which the different countries would come out in placement.

    (And he was allowed back in to judge after a one year suspension?!! What is wrong with the ISU?!)

    Other than those main two, there has also been some talk about the suspect nature of some of the other judges...

    It's been mentioned that 4 out of the 9 judges on the panel are from Eastern Bloc countries (incl. former Soviet Union countries) - so they are Russia (Alla S.), Ukraine (Yuri B.), Estonia, and Slovakia.

    Some people think this is very suspect, as they are all Eastern Bloc/former Soviet Union countries, and as such, the voting could possibly be swayed toward the Russian skaters by all 4 of them (or at least most of them).

    However, I've also seen a smaller number of people comment that this argument doesn't hold up, b/c some of these former Soviet countries actually have an *antagonistic* relationship with Russia - and as such, it would seem likely that they would NOT want to help out the Russian skaters in any preferential way. If anything, they might even want to be *less* generous with their scoring to them.

    Who knows what's true... At any rate, I don't think we have enough info on all 4 of these Eastern Bloc judges to have enough incriminating info against them (other than, of course, Alla S. of Russia and Yuri B. of Ukraine).

    (Continued below)...

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  152. Another judge who's also been brought up as being very suspect (and unfortunately, this judge wasn't mentioned in all the mainstream media stories - probably b/c he's on the technical panel, and not on the "regular" judging panel), is ANOTHER Russian judge (Alexander Lakernik), and he is the Vice Pres. of the Russian Skating Federation!

    That's not only TWO Russian judges on the entire panel of 12 judges, but also TWO top-ranking officials from the Russian Skating Federation on there!! Already, it's such an uneven panel, and so much conflict of interest!

    And, from what I understand, the 3 judges on the technical panel (which includes Alexander L.) also play a HUGE role in the scoring, b/c they evaluate all of the jumps, rotations, etc, and assess their difficulty/scoring.

    Besides all THAT, there is also another suspect judge whom less people seem to know about...

    One of the other judges on the 3-judge technical panel is Olga Baranova from Finland. At first, this judge may seem pretty innocuous, b/c, after all, she's a Finnish judge. (and not Russian, or from an Eastern Bloc country, etc)

    However, I read that she's a Russian-Finn (meaning a Russian person living in Finland)... and it makes sense if you look at her name... Olga Baranova. (Russian name)

    ALSO, more importantly - in that now infamous pic (which went viral) of the Russian judge, Alla S., hugging Adelina backstage, right after the competition... there is a lady standing right next to them (with short hair and glasses), facing them, and smiling, as if part of the group as well.

    This is another one of the judges (as shown in pics from the judging panel) - and it is none other than Olga Baranova!

    Suspicious? Absolutely!

    Now there is one last tidbit about the judges I wanted to mention, but I want to emphasize that this is not necessarily incriminating info at all... I'm just mentioning it b/c I had read this on Beverley Smith's figure skating blog, and just wanted you all to simply be aware of it.

    Beverley Smith mentioned that, along with all of the other suspect judges on that panel, there also happened to be a French judge on there as well.

    She mentioned that, back at the '98 Nagano Games, the Ukrainian judge, Yuri B., had tried to "trade" scoring favors with the French judge, in order to rig the scores/outcomes of the skating competitions. (I believe the situation was that Yuri would give the French skaters higher scores, if the French judge gave the Russian skaters higher scores in return, regardless of how they all skated)

    (Later on, the French judge broke down in front of authorities and admitted their cheating plan, and alleged that the Pres. of the French Skating Union had pressured her to do it)

    Needless to say, Bev Smith was not insinuating that the French judge used in this recent Sochi panel (who was a different judge than the one involved in the Nagano scandal) *also* acted in a crooked way... but she just mentioned it as a point of interest. (Something I think we should just be aware of... after all, the French did cheat in '98, and allegedly due to the Pres. of the French Skating Union's pressure to do so... I wonder if that Pres. is still in office today, and if that sort of shenanigan might still *possibly* be encouraged by him even now?)

    (Continued below...)

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  153. So in summary, there are at least FOUR judges (out of a total of 12) who are extremely suspect:

    1) Alla S. of Russia (wife of the Pres. of the Russian Skating Federation, and caught hugging Adelina after the competition)

    2) Yuri B. of Ukraine (formerly caught trying to rig scores at the Nagano Games... and I believe it was to increase the Russians' scores)

    3) Alexander L. of Russia (technical panel) (Vice Pres. of the Russian Skating Federation)

    4) Olga Baranova of Finland (technical panel) (Russian-Finn - caught standing next to the Russian judge, Alla S., hugging Adelina after the competition, and smiling)

    There are also *possibly* a few other judges who, while not "suspect" as such, are still worthy of possible scrutiny/ investigation:

    1) the judge from Estonia (Eastern Bloc country)
    2) the judge from Slovakia (Eastern Bloc country)
    3) the judge from France (previous corruption and cheating from French Skating Union)

    I have two things to say about this summary...

    1) It seems that the judging panel was SO stacked AGAINST Yuna being able to win, that she had no chance to do so (even if she deserved to win the gold). (Also, it's appalling, and sickening, that the ISU is so inept that it couldn't have avoided this situation in the first place!!)

    2) If this summary of the judges panel isn't enough to raise some very serious doubts about the legitimacy of the scoring that night, and to initiate an investigation, I don't know WHAT is - and it would be CRAZY if they DIDN'T. (However, clearly, we all have to really push them into doing it!)

    If anyone has any thoughts to share on this, please do!

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    Replies
    1. Not everyone who comes from an ex-Eastern Block country is pro-Russian.
      It can equally be exactly the opposite: An anti-Russian fanatic. In Lithuania (a Baltic State like Esthonia) the Russian ethnic minority hadn't even the right to vote until recently and I am not sure whether it has been given to them.

      Stay on the actual facts: Lakernik, however honest he may be, cannot be ahead of the technical evaluation team, since he is the Vice President of the Russian Figure Skating Federation. If you are sure that he has the right to grade (and not just sign the documents) this is one of the most obvious conflicts of interests one can imagine.

      Andreas

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  154. okay, I've emailed NBC, ABC, ESPN, New York Times, Washington Post, Toronto Star, and French Newspaper with the information/evidences we have. - fingers crossed - Hopefully we will hear from at least one of them.

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  155. Andreas, thanks for sharing your thoughts and the links. http://figureskatinghellas.wordpress.com / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5kpy-eb_es I'll be right back - gotta go! :)

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    Replies
    1. Good luck my friend.
      I hope that I was usefull
      and that I didn't abuse your hospitality!


      A.

      Delete
  156. Wow, Thomas, I've visited your page with thorough analysis on the scores!! I almost jumped out of my seat reading your page, realizing how inarguably logical and well structured your writing is!!
    Just sharing the link to your page again - so more people can see it!

    http://mydearkorea.blogspot.ca/2014/03/sochi-figure-skating-scandal-why-kim.html

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  157. Hi,there.The guide line of GOE you refer to is too old one.That had applied from beginning to 2008-09 season.
    In 2010 Olympic season,the new guide line which is more adequate for Kim was applied.
    After Kim got historically big amount of GOE scores, and becoming Queen in Vancouver Olympic, the regulation of GOE scoring rate had been changed lower immediately.
    The true problem is this.

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  158. Anonymous, I will copy and paste your comment to Thomas' post so that he can make changes accordingly. Thanks much!

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  159. Thanks everyone for the encouragement! Let’s just say that I like playing with spreadsheets and have a natural tendency to crunch numbers.  I just hope my effort on the analysis won’t be in vain. Anonymous @ 8:49 PM, the GOE grading guidelines are from ISU Communication 1790 dated April 26, 2013. I am pretty sure it’s for the 2013 – 2014 season. Could you confirm please? Here’s the link.

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  160. Andreas, I think you are right on the money again. “Stay on the actual facts.” It’s one thing for us to discuss among ourselves who is related to who, or who has a hidden agenda, or what deal is being made behind the scenes, etc. It’s another to use them as arguments when we try to convince others to take action. It’s just too easy for us to be labeled “conspiracy theorists”. I know, it’s not fair, but name-calling often wins over solid arguments, unfortunately. Besides, there is no way we can prove any of it, unless some whistleblower comes forward. I doubt that’s going to happen in this case though. That’s why I tried to stay away from anything that’s not a fact in my analysis. I didn’t even bring up Olga, the Finish judge, and how she was seen personally congratulating Adelina right after the competition. I did mention Alla, the Russian judge, but only from the standpoint that she has an undeniable potential conflict of interest. I was very careful about using “potential conflict of interest” instead of “conflict of interest” too, since the IOC Ethics Commission makes a clear distinction between the two.

    Suzanne, it’s almost like you were reading my mind. I was also thinking that we should probably wait a little bit to get more people to join our group first, especially since the media is completely obsessed with the Ukraine situation right now. I think we need to be realistic though. We won’t get tens of millions of people to join us. Signing an online petition is pretty much the easiest thing you can do to support our cause, but even the petition only has slightly more than 2M signatures. Perhaps I’m too pessimist…

    Speaking of getting people to join us, is everyone in the Golden Yuna Facebook group now? Should we continue our discussion there instead?

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  161. A., I can’t agree with you more. Some “home ice advantage” is to be expected, but they are just too blatant this time. As I commented on earlier, Julia was probably the anointed one originally, but she fell, so they exercised their backup option instead. I was very interested to see how Adelina would be scored at the upcoming World Championships, but someone mentioned that she wouldn’t compete there. I think we all know why. I hope she does improve and earn her gold medal after the fact. She’s probably just a victim in all of this.

    I don’t think any official ISU judge will help us here. If there is any judge who isn’t afraid of ruining his/her career, he/she would have stepped forward already. They probably all know what’s going on, but they all have families to feed and bills to pay. We need someone whose livelihood is no longer dependent on ISU. Someone like Sonia Bianchetti. I’ll see I can contact her.

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    Replies
    1. Hi Thomas

      Speaking of official judges, I don't mean that they should be of the highest rank. I don't know how the American organization is structured but I believe that even local judges know the rules. They are just not ranked among the best in order to be sent to an international event.

      Bear in mind another thing please:

      As you have already shown in your page, there was an American too among the judges at the short program.
      The American Federation also accepted Lakernik to be ahead of the technical evaluation and judge American skaters.

      What you should do, is to coordinate and apply some pressure to the American Figure Skating Federation.

      There are papers, blogs, media in America, where you may send some letters requesting for some answers.

      * Can the man who is ahead of the technical evaluation influence the final scoring or he is just signing the documents?
      * Why did the American federation agree that the vice president of another federation would judge her skaters?
      * How come that the technical evaluation team remained constant and didn't rotate like the judging panel?

      And of course, some of you, could even try to conduct with the American judge for an off the record interview. If you happen to find a professional journalist to do that job, that would be ideal.

      You don't have to "Koreanize" the whole campaign. On the contrary you should avoid mixing your task with nationalism which can only blemish it.


      Andreas

      Delete
  162. Thank you for the comprehensive evaluation of both performances. I agree with all that written. Would like to add that as a skater and coach myself I don't understand how Adelina got her footwork Level 4 in FS and got close to perfect scores on her Skating skills component. In the jifs you've provided it is obvious Adelina changes edge on her rockers and counters which makes then simpler turns - three turns. By the rules she can't get level 4. And she didn't do enough 'clean' of them to count toward the levels. She actually had less content in the footwork then Yuna. And no, Adelina's program is not more choreo complex then Yuna's. It just has more simpler turns and hops and creates illusion of complex choreography but suffers in speed and flow and ice coverage. And she did not have difficult entries or exits from her jumps so her GEOs on the jumps are not right.

    As of 'Russian Block' judges - believe me political interests between countries have nothing to do with 'tight knit' skating community. It is it's own Universe. It is totally possible Estonian judge being Russian favoring even though there is no big love between Estonia and Russia. Especially when Estonia does not have any hope for a medal and Estonian judge has Russian name and maybe even trained in Russia in the Soviet Union time. Same could be said about Slovak judge. And it could be not just because they favor or have connections to Russians. It could be pressure coming from a higher Russian power levels. Especially when the Olympic medal count is crucial for someone to re-affirm his power in Russia.

    Finland official on the Technical panel with the name Olga Baranova was born and trained in Moscow and was coach in Russia. So it makes 2 out of three Techs voting for Russians on levels and downgrades. If there is a request for review of an element then majority decides.

    ReplyDelete
  163. IOC has posted "Sotnikova's Gold Medal Winning Performance"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrVL5tM926s

    In here, someone commented with an interesting point of view.

    "Inside edge lutz equals a flip jump. There were 3 triple flips in this program which is against the rules. The "triple-triple" combo with the inside edge lutz had the toe loop under-rotated. The majority of the jumps were landed with the shoulders down. There is a gap in the program doing nothing of value to buy time until the bonus time was reached. The footwork was not level 4. The skating movements did not go with the music at all. There was travelling on the spins. Just what I stated alone is enough to lower just the tech score by 6-7 points. The short program was over scored even more severely than the LP. At minimum, 12 total points should be subtracted from her overall score bringing into question whether she even should be on the podium. Shameful judges supported by a shameful ISU. I guess the ISU wants all us long time figure skating fans to get used to this travesty. Why don't they just call it a popularity contest and not call it a competition?"

    Inside edge equals flip jump - conflict in number of triple jumps

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  164. Anonymous@7:39 AM, I think IOC and ISU expect that the outcry from fans and media would eventually wane, which makes me even more furious. Btw, I don't think Sotnikova's FS video at Sochi is available in the US.

    ReplyDelete
  165. Anonymous @ 1:19 AM and Anonymous @ 7:39 AM, if you are as furious about this scandal as we are, you should join our Facebook group called "Golden Yuna". We need to grow our numbers in order for our actions to have a real impact.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Anonymous at 1:19 AM and 7:39 AM - Wow! Thank you so much for those valuable posts!

    That is some excellent additional info you've given us... even more convincing details about the faulty scoring that was given to Adelina... more behind-the-scenes info on the the judges panel (incl. the judge Olga Baranova)... and also, what an excellent, astute comment written by the commenter on the Youtube page about Adelina's scoring! (That it should've been at least 12 points lower than Yuna's score, and also, that Adelina did 3 triple flips in the program, which is against the rules!)

    I am not an expert in figure skating scoring, the way some others are (incl. some on here) - but I've watched enough figure skating competitions by now that I have, I believe, at least a pretty reasonable idea as to how the scoring should come out. And I totally agree with the commenter mentioned above.

    It's interesting b/c in the week after the competition had ended, there were several commenters online who thought that the outrage from the competition, was MOSTLY about the fact that Yuna lost to Adelina by such a large margin (5.48 points, I believe it was). People thought that was way too wide of a margin, and that it was scandalous (and that it seemed to indicate *overly* favorable judging scores towards Adelina)

    A lot of these people said they could understand how the final scores for both skaters would've been very close (ie. a point or two away from each other) - but a decent chunk of people still thought that Adelina would've still won anyway, albeit with a MUCH slimmer margin than the "scandalous" 5.48 margin.

    I never agreed with that subset of people.

    Instead, I thought that, if the scoring had been done more fairly, not only would Yuna have won the gold medal - but by a fairly sizeable margin from Adelina as well. (and NOT the very slim 1 to 2 point margin that those people thought it should've been).

    The very astute commenter on the Youtube page wrote this about Adelina's scores (after giving some very good, detailed info about the scoring that nite)...

    "...Just what I stated alone is enough to lower just the tech score by 6-7 points. The short program was over scored even more severely than the LP. At minimum, 12 total points should be subtracted from her overall score bringing into question whether she even should be on the podium."

    (Continued below...)

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  167. I agree with that assessment... that Adelina's total score, if judged more fairly, should've been at least 12 points lower than Yuna's (and not *just* by a mere point or two).

    And that, in sum, this would NOT have been such a "close contest" between the two, as some other people had expressed. (people who clearly don't have any CLUE about all the finer details of figure skating scoring)

    I also agree that it's possible Adelina may not even have gotten the silver, but may've gotten the bronze instead. (I think the silver and bronze being somewhat of a toss-up between her and Caroline Kostner)

    Does anyone else agree?

    Also, to Anonymous who wrote these two posts...

    Please feel free to join our Golden Yuna Facebook page, if you are interested, and also to drop in here and add to the conversation at any time.

    Also, you mentioned that you are a skater and a coach...

    We are currently looking for professionals in the skating world who might help us in our mission - to get an investigation about the results from that nite under way, with the hopes of getting a more fair outcome out of this (incl. the deserved winner of that nite, Yuna Kim, getting a gold medal in addition to Adelina)... and ALSO, to put pressure on the ISU so that they make some changes to the currently very faulty scoring system (eg. get rid of anonymous judging, fire judges who were caught cheating, prevent judges from being in the panel who might demonstrate a clear conflict of interest, etc), so that we may ALL enjoy the sport of figure skating once again (both fans and professionals alike)!

    If you can help us and be a part of this movement, please do let us know!!

    ReplyDelete
  168. Wow, someone on the Golden Yuna FB page emailed everyone today that the ISU "Contact" page is now open again. (so that you can send an email to them through that page)

    I checked it out just now, and it is in fact back on their website again.

    (As most of you know, the ISU had taken down their "Contact" page for about two weeks, after the ladies figure skating event had ended, b/c they were receiving a massive amount of angry emails from incensed Yuna fans every day, after the scoring travesty that took place at that event)

    Apparently, they must now think that "the coast is clear", and that the uproar has died down by now, and that all the angry fans have forgotten about it and won't be bothering them anymore.

    **THINK AGAIN.**

    BUT... before we take advantage of the fact that their contact page is now back up, I think we need to think about it a bit, and make some sort of plan as to how best to contact them. (rather than not make *any* plan - and just have a couple of emails from people on here, trickle into them here and there... that won't make enough of an impact on them)

    Should we build up our numbers first before contacting them?

    Should we get more skating professionals on our side before contacting them?

    Should we send just one, excellently written email/letter to them, with inarguable technical arguments (about the faulty scoring at that event), representing all of us in the group... or should we bombard them with emails and letters from each and every one of us? (more emails/letters in number). Which might make more of an impact?

    How soon should we contact them? Is it urgent, or do we have some time?

    I think we should think about these questions first, before we "make our move".

    Any thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  169. I had two more ideas...

    1) Right now, we here in this group as well as in the Golden Yuna FB group (both of which are kinda linked together), are trying to get our group going (including growing in number), with the mission in mind to get Yuna her rightful gold medal, as well as to pressure the ISU into making the skating scoring system more fair and more transparent (so that we might all enjoy the sport of figure skating once again).

    There might *possibly* even be a few more online groups in N. America (US and Canada) with the same mission as ours, that we just haven't come across yet. (IF this is the case, obviously it would be great to know about them so that we could all join forces)

    Even more importantly, I am wondering if there are any online groups such as ours in S. Korea, with the same mission in mind.

    I would *think*, that out of a huge population of 50 mill people - pretty much all of whom love Yuna, and also being a proud nation - that there might also be some groups over there, who are trying to do the same thing we are.

    If so, I am wondering how we can find out about such groups, so that we can join forces with them.

    It would be helpful to us - not only to increase our numbers - but also b/c I think we need the help of some comrades in S. Korea to do some of the necessary work over there.

    For example - to call/contact/harass the KSU to file a complaint... to try to get some info from the Korean judge from the SP program... to try to contact Korean media to broadcast or print this story, when we're ready (although I realize that for political reasons, this might be difficult with the mainstream media over there... but perhaps it could still be done with smaller, or more "liberal", Korean media outlets)... to post about this on the Korean internet so that more Koreans know about our mission and can join it... and to keep us updated with what's going on over there, etc.

    It seems some people on here know people in S. Korea...

    If you can ask them if they know of any such groups/websites/forums like ours in S. Korea, or of any news about this situation in general, please let us know!!

    (Continued below...)

    ReplyDelete
  170. 2) As mentioned in previous posts, we need to enlist the help of as many skating "influentials" and skating professionals as we can.

    I agree with what Andreas wrote in his recent post...

    "50 people with a name and surname of some importance count for a million of signatures coming from angry fans."

    Obviously, getting some of the "big names" on board (like Katarina Witt, Kurt Browning, and Dick Button) would be a top prize, b/c they are famous and influential (and which the media, in particular, would well respond to)... but I think that getting a lot of "lesser known" skating professionals would be valuable as well. (eg. skating coaches, skating judges, professional skaters or ex-skaters, writers and journalists, etc). Needless to say, getting both types would be ideal.

    I think we should make a list of all such people that we can think of... and then try to contact each one of them, to see if they would be willing to come on board with us.

    (And remember, we want to let them know that this is not JUST about correcting the wrongs of that nite in ladies figure skating, and getting Yuna her rightful gold medal - but ALSO about trying to improve the current faulty ISU scoring system, in order to make it more fair and more transparent, for future competitions)

    So far, I have on this list:

    - Katarina Witt
    - Kurt Browning
    - Dick Button
    - Jamie Sales (former Gold medalist in pairs skating)
    - Joannie Rochette (former Bronze medalist in figure skating)

    - Sonia Bianchetti Garbato (figure skating referee, author, and figure skating blog owner)
    - Beverley Smith (award-winning journalist and author of 4 best-selling figure skating books, and figure skating blog owner)
    - David Lease (figure skating insider and owner of a popular figure skating blog)

    All of the people above have voiced scorn about the scoring travesty that took place at the recent ladies figure skating event, and they also expressed that Yuna should've won the gold that nite. (some are more explicit in their wording about this than others)

    Is there anyone else? Let's add to this list as we gather more names over time...

    ReplyDelete
  171. Who wrote that last brief comment above, signed "A."? That's Andreas, right?

    Andreas, I was planning to write back to you this morning, to thank you for your truly excellent, and very informative, posts that you wrote yesterday! And also to write a reply (which I will do right now)... but I didn't get a chance to do so this morning because I wrote some other long posts on here, and then I ran out of time! (Ha ha - so much to write!)

    Anyway, thank you so much for those informative and detailed posts - they were valuable!

    As I had written in one of my previous posts - up until this incident at the Sochi Olympics, I was largely unaware of all the behind-the-scenes politics and goings-on with the Olympics, in terms of all the different nations involved with it and all the politics going on between them, so that these politics could end up unfairly affecting scoring, judging, and outcomes at these competitions. (I was only slightly aware of all this... and I think I was in good company!)

    But this incident has really opened up my eyes more to what *really* goes on behind the scenes (and unfortunately, it is pretty sickening).

    But I also know that what I now know about all this, is only the TIP OF THE ICEBERG. So I really appreciated your post b/c it helped fill in at least SOME of the blanks for me. I don't know how in the world you get all that info, but I think it is pretty impressive (esp. as I think the majority of people are pretty ignorant about this).

    Also, you wrote, "That the judges would be more favourite to a Russian skater under these conditions was to be expected and up to a point "natural". The question is to what extend and how. To favour a young and promising athlete who comes from the hosting country, is one thing. To totally upturn the results is another, major thing, which cannot be accepted. But exactly because it is major and unacceptable, it needs to be proved."

    I totally agree with you on that. I think that *everyone* kind of expected that the scoring would be a *bit* more generous towards the Russians, being that they're of the host country... as you said, it was expected and even sort of "natural". And if that had, in fact, happened, I'm sure everyone here would've accepted it and even been fine with it.

    But, like you said, it's one thing to be a *bit* more generous with scoring, and another thing to extend it way too FAR - and to the point where the results are totally upturned. As you said, THAT is unacceptable - and that is exactly why we're fighting against this right NOW.

    Do those corrupted Russian (etc) judges (and whoever else is involved), really think that they can pull off such a blatant, egregious act of cheating... in the biggest, and most important, sports competition in the world (the Olympics)... with more than a billion people watching?? And get away with it?? Do they think we're idiots or something?

    I DON'T THINK SO!!

    Also, I appreciated all your suggestions... that, besides trying to track down and question the Korean judge in the SP, to also try to get in touch with some licensed skating judges and ask them their honest appraisal of the competition, and also, to try to get more well-known skating professionals on our side, instead of just a ton of angry fans. :)

    Anyway, thanks again and feel free to drop in anytime to add to the conversation! I think you said something about wearing out your hospitality (?) - but on the contrary, you are MORE than welcome here and have provided us with some of the best discussions we've had so far!!

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    Replies
    1. Susan thank you in return.
      I have posted on Thomas' page another couple of comments.
      Have a look...

      Andreas

      Delete
  172. Hey guys, I'm Stacey Lazek, who started a new petition. - "Apologize and give Yuna gold back. Purify ISU judgingsystem..."
    Okay, I am getting some thoughts from people that having two petitions going on could be less effective. What are your thoughts? Should the petitions be merged? Personally, by starting a new petition, I thought the Sochi scandal would regain some attention. To Koreans, was the new petition recognized by the Koreans? (I mean has it gained any media attention for instance?)

    ReplyDelete
  173. Stacey, yesterday (Korean time), MK Sports published an article covering the first petition: http://sports.mk.co.kr/view.php?year=2014&no=334478 but I don't think the second petition is getting as much attention as the first one. So merging the two petitions may be a good idea for, if we are in a larger group, if we stick together, we will be considered more seriously and even appear more intimidating.

    We have great ideas and suggestions on here and I think it's about time to figure out our priorities and make our voice heard.

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  174. Hi Stacey,

    Thanks for dropping in, and for taking the initiative to start that petition!

    I'm not sure if it would be better to have one or two petitions, or if they should be merged or not (hopefully others can chime in with their thoughts)...

    But in the meantime, I wanted to ask you - how many people have signed your petition so far? (I tried to check on Change.org right now, but the website seemed to be acting up, at least on my end). Isn't it in the thousands by now?

    Could you help us out with this? I'm trying to think of a way we can get any interested people who've signed your petition, to come join our Golden Yuna FB page and our mission in general.

    We need more people in our group, to grow in number, and to help us employ all of our tactics, in order to have the best possible chance of success - for Yuna to get her deserved gold medal, and also, hopefully, for the ISU to make some much needed improvements to their current scoring system.

    I think we only have about 66 members so far on the Golden Yuna FB page... we need a *LOT* more, in order to have any chance of success in this endeavor.

    Do you by chance have access to the email addresses of all of the people who've signed your online petition? (in the sense that, could you send out a mass email to all of them, letting them know about our mission, and to come join our FB group?)

    Also, would it be possible for you to put up a new message on your Change.org petition site, briefly explaining our mission, and with a link to our FB group (and also this blog page), so that people can see that message when they go to your site?

    If you could help us with this, I think it could potentially help us grow our numbers (and our strength) substantially!

    Please let us know! Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  175. I read a comment on a figure skating website/forum a day or two ago, in which the commenter said that the KSU actually has 60 days in which to file a complaint. (which is different than what most of us have heard - which is that a team has to file a complaint/protest within 30 minutes after the competition ends)

    Being that this info came from a commenter on a forum, obviously I don't know how truly accurate it is.

    Does anyone by chance have any idea if this is true? Or - can anyone think of a way to confirm whether this info is true or not?

    This would be helpful info to know... B/c if, for example, it turns out to be true, that would be great - b/c then we know we at least have *some* time, in which to try to pressure the KSU to file a complaint.

    On the other hand, if it turns out not to be true, and if that 30 minute rule does apply... does that mean it's supposed to be "too late" to file? I wonder how flexible that rule is?

    At any rate, I know we are still going forward... but I just wonder if one of the roadblocks they try to put up is to say that the "deadline" to file has already passed.

    If anyone has any info to share on this, please do. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  176. PS. Stacey, I just read Onsemiro's reply to your question about possible merging the two petitions together.

    I think I agree with her - that probably merging the two would be best, if that is possible.

    That would seem to produce more of a "presence" (and maybe even help us to appear more intimidating), and also it would unify all of us more.

    Do you know if you are able to merge two petitions on Change.org?

    Would you be in touch with the other petition's owner (Justice Seeker in Vancouver) in order to do that?

    Please let us know - thanks.


    ReplyDelete
  177. PPS. Stacey - On second thought...

    I just read this on the Golden Yuna FB page right now, from someone in response to your question about whether your petition got any attention in S. Korea or not...

    Lee Ryan
    "sure it did! So many articles & news was generated from that 2nd petiton. Especially, the content of articles focused about the new petition was started by a Canadian, not by a Korean. You can check one of those articles here... http://osen.mt.co.kr/article/G1109797460 (But, written in Korean, Sorry!)"

    So it seem that perhaps your petition did get some attention in S. Korea after all? And in large part b/c it was started by a Canadian, and not a Korean?

    So now, b/c of this, I'm not entirely sure if you should merge your petition with the first one or not. (it seems like a good thing to get some media coverage on this in Korea...)

    Hopefully others can chime in with their thoughts...

    In the meantime, please do let me know if it is even possible to merge two petitions on Change.org, and if you would be in contact with the first petition's owner (Justice Seeker in Vancouver) in order to do that.

    I have been trying to find a way to contact him/her for a while now, so that he/she might be able to help our mission! Thanks!



    ReplyDelete
  178. I just came across this interesting article right now... I found out about it through Andreas' post under the page for Thomas' scoring analysis. (he included the link to the article in his post)

    Here's the link to the article:
    http://voices.yahoo.com/scandal-fraud-death-figure-skating-12547557.html?cat=9

    It's written by someone named Jesse Helms, a writer with the Yahoo Contributor Network.

    I will copy the article here, as I think it's really worth reading by everyone - and it's also very frank and blunt (which you usually don't see in articles like this).

    Also, there are 192 comments below the article, which look interesting as well... (of which I only read a few so far)

    **********************************

    Scandal, Fraud, and Death of Figure Skating

    Jesse Helms, Yahoo Contributor Network
    Feb 25, 2014

    The 2014 Sochi Olympics will be remembered as the day when the ladies figure skating finally met its demise.

    It was the Russian mob politics that robbed Yuna Kim of South Korea of her rightful gold medal in front of the global TV audience. It was the ISU's premeditated device, since they began promoting the 15 year old Julia Lipnitskaia, that turned upside down the COP system as well as the integrity of figure skating.

    Scandals and fraud are nothing new to this over a hundred year old sport. But never before was it displayed in so outrageous a manner as in Sochi.

    It had been set up already long before the game began. Last year throughout the Grand Prix, Julia Lipnitskaia caused a storm winning every competition with her consistency but questionable qualities and super inflated scores.

    As I indicated in the earlier articles, that presaged this storm.

    This is not an anomaly in which those pro Russian judges and the mad Russian mob raped and butchered the sport in live TV. It was the ISU that conceived it all several months ago.

    And their devious plot finally reared its ugly head.

    (Continued below...)

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  179. Lavishing the unthinkable GOE on the then 15 year old's juniorish jump, the ISU judges had been building up the momentum for the grand Sochi fraud.

    In the 2013 World championships everything seemed clear that there was no way for any young skater to get even close to the top skaters such as Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner or Mao Asada as the podium was stonewalled by them.

    The mastery of the veteran skaters are far ahead of the youngsters unless the gap should be closed artificially.

    That's why the ISU judges began to award a pile of GOE on the young skaters' poor quality jump in the Grand Prix as long as they managed to land them.

    You don't have to be an expert. Adelina Sotnikova or Julia Lipnitskaia for that matter didn't change much or only improve mildly from their junior performances.

    In the 2013 Worlds Adelina Sotnikova's perfect short program which is an almost exact replica of hers in Sochi earned barely 60. Now nearly 75? Are you kidding?

    It can't possibly fall within the range of standard deviation.

    Both Julia Lipnitskaia and Adelina Sotnikova were, and still are skaters who categorically belong to the second group; their scores at their best range only between 200- 195.

    The truth is that a skater like Adelina Sotnikova or Julia Lipnitskaia needs at least five years of hard training and a bit of luck to reach the kind of level of skating of these trio veterans. Only some errors in competitive context may open a chance for lesser skaters to catch up.

    But in Sochi, in all far-fetched fantasy, the case is closed, solid and indisputable.

    If judged correctly, Sotnikova should have scored 65 or less in short and 135 in free, which gives her less than 200.

    In other words if judged unbiasedly, Sotnikova or even Lipnitskaia cannot, will not and shall not beat those veterans unless the veterans make serious mistakes or multiple flaws in performance. But in Sochi, the trio delivered nearly best performances except Mao Asada who imploded in short, yet came back brilliantly in free.

    (Continued below...)

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  180. The incredible Kim did give wonderful performances, given the situation in which she had to wait a long break before she started the free program. Nothing came near to her statuesque presentation except her own monumental performances in Vancouver four years ago.

    Only skaters who could ever be compared to Kim were Kostner or Asada. Even with ludicrous placement of Sotnikova after short, Kim still won the game by mile.

    But the result showed Adelina Sotnikova earned five points ahead of Kim.

    There is no way of justifying this other than an outright fraud.

    USA Today's Christine Brennan identifies two judges, Yuri Balkov, involved in the judging scandal in the 1998 Nagano Olympics, and Alla Shekhovtseva, a wife to the Russian Skating Federation general director Valentin Pissev.

    But this scandal goes deeper than that.

    The ISU since the 2013 Worlds prepared this coup against the figure standard upheld since the Cop introduction.

    In order to make it plausible in the eyes of public who have no knowledge of figure skating, the ISU judges rewarded indiscriminately the jump of poor quality this season.

    But what they overlooked was that it didn't cut.

    No matter how North Korea tries to convince the world that their people live in paradise, millions are still starving to death. Putin and his chauvinistic crowd cheer for Adelina's skating and her scores, but it cannot make her skating worthy of gold, not even surpass Kostner.

    Russian's logics and the ISU's denial shall continue but it's out there for everybody to see. North Korea's mythic leader may be a god riding the cloud to those dying North Korean, but to the world they are simply brainwashed people in a pathetic condition.

    Facts remain facts. Frauds are frauds.

    Who wants to invest their time and sweat and life to this fraudulent work of travesty? Who will tell those young dreamers to become a figure skater if your glory depends on politics not sportmanship?Who will compete in that sport where corruption is your crown and fraud is the name of your medal?

    This recalls the president of the ISU for corruption and mishandling of the judging system.

    All the ISU needs to do is not an investigation of whether the president of the ISU and higher ranking officials are involved in the scheme; it's exposed and self-evident. Issue an official apology, take a disciplinary measure against the judges, and reverse the decision. That is the only way of remedying this heinous crime.

    (Continued below...)

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  181. **********************************

    Here are a few comments, right below the article...

    Reply 3/2/2014
    I cannot believe that such a brazen nonsense could happen in the 21st century. It was obvious that the four pro-Russian jugdes were determined to give Adelina a gold as long as she doesn't do a major blunder. For instance, the 3T-3T that Adelina did was technically easier jump than that of Yuna (3R-3T) but Adelina got higher GOEs. This distortion should be corrected and the colluded judges should be punished. We have the obligation to set the history right for our young aspiring athletes. We must show that justice prevails in the end.

    peter 2/28/2014
    Due to ISU’s internal corruption and arrogant contempt towards the public out cry of fairness in the sports many would be Yuna Kim of the future was hoping to dedicate their lives in, I see only those who are naïve or uninformed are willing to sacrifice much of their precious time and lives into a sports that is rotten to it’s core. Those NBC commentators who were praising the performance of Yuna Kim profusely during her performance at the Olympic just keeping silent right after the final score was shown or even defended the high score of Sotnikova’s score should be ashamed of themselves. In my eyes, they are just profitieers of the sports of figure skating who do not care anything about the integrity of the sports which they claim have been an important part of their lives as ex figure skaters themselves.

    **********************************

    This article seems to be implying that the ISU *itself* was somehow involved in the scoring scandal at the ladies' figure skating event at Sochi.

    I don't know how much of an expert this writer is... but does his belief seem plausible?

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  182. Suzanne, I have been operating under the assumption that ISU itself is involved. Given how blatantly the cheating was committed, there's really no other explanation.

    Andreas, who made the decision on selecting the Technical Panel? Is it typical to change the Technical Panel between a short program and a free skate? In any case, you have an interesting suggestion to work the USFSA. I have never considered that angle.

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    Replies
    1. Thomas, I really don't know.
      The question is: If the technical panel has any decisive role in the final evaluation (and not just an advisory role), why didn't they rotate like the others?

      This is the reason why I suggested that you consult an expert in order to know the rules.

      That said, I rewatched Sotnikova's video on YouTube. Now that I am able to judge that program more carefully and with less urgency, I believe that, rules aside, it is too obvious that such a performance in the past may had landed even behind the first four, after Gracie and Masada.

      A real diva may have a bad day and even fall on the ice but she will stand up again gracefully. The double landing side-effects and the bendings after every jump are rally nasty, as if Sotnikova was skating for her life, (which is actually what exactly was happening in Iceberg in my opinion) .

      I await to rewatch Kim's program again, as well as the short programs, but scepticism has already deserted me...


      Andreas

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  183. Thomas,

    I re-read your detailed mathematical analysis as to why Yuna should've won the gold medal, two nites ago (when I had more time and could "digest" everything in there better)... and it was brilliant - logical, mathematical, and most importantly, inarguable. Much more ammunition for our case!

    So glad you did all that work - and I think, when we're more "ready", we should include that document, along with other "proof of evidence" that we have, etc, to the media outlets.

    I wanted to ask you something about that analysis, just to double-check something... I think you said in that analysis that, depending on a few factors, Yuna would've mostly likely won the gold, but it would be by a very slim margin (less than 1 point).

    But on the other hand, if a few of those factors had possibly gone another way (though unlikely), it's *possible* Adelina might've won, but by an extremely slim margin (by something like 0.05 points or something).

    I hope I got that right (?)...

    Anyway, I wanted to ask - was your analysis meant to be a fully comprehensive analysis... or more of a partial analysis? (ie. just using some of their jumps and elements into the analysis, but not ALL of them).

    (I'm assuming it was not a fully comprehensive analysis, b/c that would be too difficult to work out, let alone even acquire all the scoring info?)

    I ask b/c I noticed that a few things were left out of the analysis, which I think could amp up our case even more.

    In the analysis, you showed some excellent examples of how Adelina's scores were over-inflated, and how Yuna's scores were suppressed/downgraded.

    Here are some more blatant examples of Yuna's scores being downgraded (which were left out of the analysis)... I recall that for one of her jumps (which were all "textbook" in the competition, as they usually are - except for that one jump in the FS where she landed with a slightly shaky leg), one of the judges gave her a 0 score, of all things - while all the other judges gave her positive scores/ pretty good marks. That seems suspicious, as well as clearly unfair.

    Also, she was only given a Level 3 for her steps sequence and layback (while Adelina was given a Level 4) - but on that great short video entitled "What happened at the Sochi Olympics?", towards the end, you hear a British broadcaster (maybe from the BBC?) saying on air, perplexedly and sort of under his breath, "she was given a level 3 for her steps sequence and layback... should've been a strong Level 4..."

    So there were all these devious little ways that the judges (the ones involved in this) could "chip away" at her score, lowering the total amount. (while at the same time, where were many little ways they could over-inflate Adelina's score, as you very clearly showed on the analysis)

    So my thought on this is, that after *all* of the elements are accounted for - Yuna not only would've won the gold, but by a decent sized margin from Adelina as well (and not just by a mere point or two) - and that it would NOT have been such a "close contest" b/t the two, after all. (my thought is that Yuna would've won by at least 12 points, roughly)

    Do you think it would be a good idea to add those additional elements to your article later on, to further emphasize this gap in scoring?

    ReplyDelete

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